To be fair, at the time Pretty Hate Machine came out - December 1988 - looking and sounding like part of a genre wasn't really a bad thing. Nitzer Ebb sounded an awful lot like the first Front 242 album.

And BiGod20 didn't even exist until after PHM was released...

My "evil Prince" observation stands. PHM was supposed to be a dark, sexy pop record with more than a hint of traditional white-boy soul (c'mon, listen to "Ringfinger" or "Kinda I Want To").

Trent may have courted the industrial scene and the industrial look, but he has always been first and foremost a pop artist. The one album that wasn't directly aimed at a pop audience - The Fragile - is the one most of his fans hate.

To be fair, at the time Pretty Hate Machine came out - December 1988 - looking and sounding like part of a genre wasn't really a bad thing.

i didn't say it was
read the whole post

bi-god 20 released three records in 1988

rec|use wrote:bi-god 20 released three records in 1988

That appears to be true, but even so, Trent was likely recording PHM before they came out or at best during. So, I still doubt he was intentionally being derivative of them. I don't recall anybody caring about them until "The Bog" came out, and they were always a complete and blatant 242 rip-off, even to the extent that De Meyer did the vocals for "The Bog".

I just really don't think he was ever trying very hard to be "industrial" as much as he was trying to be "pop" and "accessible". And that's a good thing, because while I still like PHM, you'll never see me pulling out, say, Tactical Neural Implant and appreciating it. Hell, even way back then I could tell it was a crap record.

Definately trying harder to be pop than industrial. It was the same sickness I saw many times around as new bands skyrocketed to fame on a pop take off of an established artist's style.

Just off the top of my head:
Georgia Sattlelites did it to Jason and the Schorchers
Nirvana did it to Mudhoney (Bleach rocked, but they gave up on that sound toots sweet)
Rammstein did it to Laibach
and NIN did it to SP

Just my opinion, so don't get too up in arms about it. It just seems like a lot of acts take an innovative sound, make it poppy, then bask in the praise.

Onibubba wrote:Nirvana did it to Mudhoney (Bleach rocked, but they gave up on that sound toots sweet)

How can you not like Nevermind or In Utero? I know Nevermind isn't "cool" but goddamn, it really was the ultimate Pixies/Dinosaur Jr/Sonic Youth hybrid. And In Utero was just raw and uncompromising.

jack i think you missed onibubba's point

rec|use wrote:jack i think you missed onibubba's point

I don't think so. He seemed to be saying that Nirvana took Mudhoney's sound and made it "bad". I would say that Mudhoney only really ever wrote one song that was as good as Nirvana's material.

Unless you think he was saying that Nirvana, by being popular, made Mudhoney suck? That I would certainly agree with. Nothing makes a band sound lamer than when they're trying to play "catch-up".

mudhoney sucked
but the meat puppets owned....

Jack wrote:

rec|use wrote:jack i think you missed onibubba's point

I don't think so. He seemed to be saying that Nirvana took Mudhoney's sound and made it "bad". I would say that Mudhoney only really ever wrote one song that was as good as Nirvana's material.

Unless you think he was saying that Nirvana, by being popular, made Mudhoney suck? That I would certainly agree with. Nothing makes a band sound lamer than when they're trying to play "catch-up".

Sweetheart...I think he was saying that Nirvana took Mudhoney's sound...& made it a little more 'Pop'...Therefore buying into the mainstream...I don't think that Oni was making a comment on how 'good' or 'bad' it was at all...That wasn't the point I don't believe...

Well, he said that Bleach "rocked", implying the later two albums didn't "rock", and when people say something "rocks", it usually means they like it.

That's why I thought that, in that particular case, he was saying Nirvana somehow made Mudhoney's sound "worse".

And let's not even get into the fact that Mudhoney were just copying other bands themselves anyway...

Jack wrote:Well, he said that Bleach "rocked", implying the later two albums didn't "rock", and when people say something "rocks", it usually means they like it.

That's why I thought that, in that particular case, he was saying Nirvana somehow made Mudhoney's sound "worse".

And let's not even get into the fact that Mudhoney were just copying other bands themselves anyway...

*shrug*...I dunno...Interpret for yourslef...I guess...

4X541N7 wrote:*shrug*...I dunno...Interpret for yourslef...I guess...

Or, if I got his point wrong, let him correct it instead of you and recluse both?

Jack wrote:

4X541N7 wrote:*shrug*...I dunno...Interpret for yourslef...I guess...

Or, if I got his point wrong, let him correct it instead of you and recluse both?

Hey Jack...I wasn't trying to put you in your place, or anything...You're one of the few people that I wouldn't argue with on here...I was just making sure that you didn't miss an over veiw...That's all...If you're making a point...That's fine...Just don't jump my ass...For making sure you had your facts straight...Jesus...

junkie christ wrote:mudhoney sucked
but the meat puppets owned....

Speaking of meat.....

/me goes to find his Meatmen albums

Honeybunches, if I "jumped your ass", it would be a lot more obvious. And your ass would be a lot more sore.

No worries.

Zeo wrote:I think people say NIN was an SP rip-off because the drums on "down in it" sound a lot like those on skinny puppy's "dig it"....
It is pretty obvious Trent borrowed his image at the time from Nivek Ogre. Other than that, nineinchnails sounds nothing like SP.

The Prince comparison though…. I really don't get that at all.

Zeo, ah...you mean NIN-Terrible Lie sounds like SP's-DiG It, not Down in It. Very true in every respect. Except Reznor made it "different" by making it an octave higher and a couple of beats faster. But I still like both songs equally, even though Ogilvie did it first. Everyone is a fucking Xerox of someone else nowdays. Oh well.

Goddamn guys, it is just an opinion Sorry, I only have internet access at work, so I missed all of this.

All I can speak for is what I remember years ago when this music came out. And that was what I though back then. Can't reevaluate or reconsider as I honestly cannot remember the last time I even listened to a Nirvana record.

What I was saying is that I felt at the time that the bands I mentioned were taking a sound from a band that had already made it their own, made it poppier, and found success with it that had eluded the original band - stealing their thunder so to speak. This is probably more clear with the Jason and the Scorchers / Georgia Sattelites comparison. But I just had to throw Nirvana into the mix for shits and grins.

Yes, I did like Bleach. No, I found nothing redeeming about Nevermind whatsoever - It sucked ass. In Utero was an improvement. I don't own any of them though, so that shows you how much of an impression they really made on me. Don't own any Mudhoney either now that I think of it

And Tescoe Vee and the Meatmen "rock."

Honeybunches, if I "jumped your ass", it would be a lot more obvious. And your ass would be a lot more sore.

please
rush for that tough guy act

cuz you know you got schooled all through this thread

hang it up

rec|use wrote:

Honeybunches, if I "jumped your ass", it would be a lot more obvious. And your ass would be a lot more sore.

please
rush for that tough guy act

cuz you know you got schooled all through this thread

hang it up

You know recluse, you seem like a cool enough guy in person, but dude, you can be a real jackass on this board.
Being negative about almost every goddamn topic comes up does not impress and does not make you look smarter than anyone else. It makes you look like you are trying soo hard to be cool.
Nobody likes that shit.
Everyone on here is entitled to an opinion, but "calling people out" on "how they got schooled" and shit like that only makes you look like a dickwad.