Mother Mo wrote:Ya know, in Europe there are professionals who have facial piercings, strangely colored hair, & unique wardrobe choices who are accepted by their employers & the general public. As a former professional with discrete tattoos & an almost all black wardrobe, I look forward to the day when my own country puts intelligence & skill before fashion & conformity. Yeah, I know... I'm in for a helluva wait. That's okay, it's worth waiting for.
I agree. I'm all about originality and creativity. I've been in this scene too long not to be.
But adult busness professionals and young kids are two different issues.
Wow, Mo, I think this is the first thing we've ever disagreed about!
Sure, I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter.
I thought about leaving this subject alone but after getting a call from knox county schools surveying what I thought about the dress code and speaking with my 2 school aged children about it I could not keep my opion to myself.
It is my view that uniforms will not fix anything. There will still be disruption in class and possibly more bullying than before.
Uniforms are made for a specific body type and if you dont fall under that type then you wont nessisarily look good in it. It is bad enough the "fat" kids get picked on but now they will have no control over how they dress, thus they can not pick out more flattering outfits. I have seen this first hand, uniforms fix nothing. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a stay at home mom and its only my opionion. Though I do feel strong enough that if this policy comes to be I will remove my children from this school system and move them to another or home school. I will teach my children tolarence and acceptance, if only everyone else would this would not be an issue.
However, I do have a teenage son and regularly spend time with him and his friends. All of them are musicians or artists of some sort that express their creativity and individuality in various ways.
Uniforms wouldn't trouble me so much if the school systems weren't cutting funding to the arts, where students could express their creativity and individuality. Since they do not find music and art to be of any use (and we aren't going to get into the statistics about children who are musicians and the fact that they do better in school than those that aren't), the administrations of various school systems feel that they can just do away with those outlets.
Now for the final blow. Let's make it very hard for a child to explore who and what they are by dressing them all to look like the good little corporate puppets society wants them to become.
I, too, am a professional in a world where a corset, black leather pants and a dog collar would not be tolerated in the work place. As I stated before, I've been asked not to wear total black all the time because I "intimidate" my co-workers. I have found ways to express my "goth-ness" (for lack of a better term) by other means that are more acceptable to the corporate masses.
I believe that we need to let our students express themselves in their clothing choices. Yes, we need to have a dress code, but let them dress like they want within those boundaries.
NO UNIFORMS!!
"Masquerading as a normal person day after day is exhausting"
"The flip side of the maternal instinct is the killer instinct."
Many people have made the point that seems to have been missed in my post. I apolgize for the hurry that prompted my deft writing to become unclear.
I am against school uniforms because they will not solve the very problems they are being instituted for. In that they do not alleivate the primary concerns of school officals, I find them pointless.
Currently, I am in Pellissippi State's computer lab. Wearing 3-foot wings. I have finished my Theatre classes for the day and am doing homework. Now, college does not have a dress code, and problems are less prevelent. Wouldn't that indicate the person, not the wrapper, is of concern?
Changing clothes does not change the person. A bully in a uniform is still a bullly. A violent, troubled child in a uniform is still a violent, troubled child. You cannot change them by changing what they wear. So then, the point of school uniforms would be......?
Russo made my point beautifully, Thank you. (you were more eloquent that I at that moment) Ostrication will occur for all types of kids. Someone inferred that the smart kids would be appreciated with school uniforms. Not true. Yours truly, "teacher's pet" in the beginning, and fouler expressions and rumors followed. I eventually begged to leave school, simply in order to do my work.
I still struggle with the "4.0" stigma, but now have the confidence to handle childish pettiness. Only after escaping the uniform-enforcing school. The important point here is, Acceptance is not something that can be changed with clothing. And proponents of school uniforms should not insist that a uniform-clad school body will somehow get along better.
Why are we holding onto the "preparation for the real world" theory? It's folly to think all children in school will go into the suit/tie work world. It is also folly to believe that needing to put on a suit later in life nesseitates putting on a suit as a child. School uniforms cannot be compared to office attire in that uniforms are indentical, whereas the work-a-day world is decidedly not so. There are minimum standards you must meet (be it "office professional"), yes, but creativity and personality are emphasized too. Many schools already have the minimum standards in place, and allow for creativity and personality. Why take it further than the real world requires? Also, keep in mind, these are kids, let them have a childhood before they become adults eternally. We say "you'll have to wear suits when you're older, so instead of letting you play now, we'll just force the suit now." Why? Should a baby be born into a suit, simply because later he might have to wear one? Extreme example, but do you see my point?
Forcing some ideal on an unreceptive person will not change their mind, more often it hardens the opinion and adds resentment. School uniforms will do this. People entering the workplace know they will likely have to wear a suit. They choose that path. Uniforms do not allow for the "real world" in this aspect, and will only add resentment, and later rebellion.
Please do not think me some under-achieving loud-mouthed community college kid. I am currently 4.0, Honors Society member, Advertising-PR/ Theatre Major/Minor, that conducts herself with polish and poise when needed. Yesterday I was wearing a suit, because I needed to, today I am sporting fairy wings and eyeliner artwork. Instead of forcing students to wear uniforms for naught, let them pick it up on their own time, of their own volition, if they need to.
with all this talk about school, we seemed to have forgotten what this is really all about:
[Amendment I]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
These rights do not stop at the door to the school. As long as this kid does nothing to harm anyone, there is no cause to make him change his appearance.
Uniforms also infringe on this right. By dismissing what one wears as a fashion show, it denies a person this right.
Nephilim wrote:I think you need to re-read the quote. No where does it mention religion or worship in the text that was convieniently emboldened for you.
Nevermind. This is getting really far-fetched.
Sure, I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter.
Nephilim wrote:I think you need to re-read the quote.
The last time I checked, CONGRESS wasn't passing any laws regarding school uniforms. It is up to the individual institutions to implement such a policy.
Your constitutional rights aren't being violated. Perhaps you should read your quote again.
Sure, I'll try to be nicer, if you try to be smarter.
rec|use wrote:sometimes it seems like everyone on this board is either 13 or 53
Thanks for contributing. I'm 32, actually, but I appreciate the dismissive oversimplification.
Ophelia, my sweet, I always enjoy hearing your opinions. You are kind, educated, & cultured, & I have enormous respect for you. Our experiences have not lead us to the same ground here though. It is still wonderful to live in a society where these things can be debated in a calm, rational manner & where there is ample room for dissent.
I understand you're point of view & respect it, but cannot agree with it. Children aren't students first & foremost, but children. Learning to coexist in a society with folks who express themselves differently from you is a key lesson in life, IMO. I want my children to be independent thinkers, not blind followers of policy. I want them to respect & obey the rule of law, but not to the point where they allow authority to be needlessly abused. I guess it's all about the balance & possessing the good judgement to know when to comply & when to question.
Drgnlegs had a good point about the psychological implications of stuffing various sized kids into the same style uniform. It's not flattering or kind. Teens are experimentg with different styles & forms of expression as a method of understanding & defining themselves as individuals. The bad haircuts & overdone makeup they play with during these years are often abandoned for more middle of the road choices naturally & in due time. Remember mullets & parachute pants? (Ooops, showing my age again!)
Let them play with fashion & learn from it while they can. It's corny but true that they grow up way too fast.
Nephilim wrote:I think you need to re-read the quote.
The last time I checked, CONGRESS wasn't passing any laws regarding school uniforms. It is up to the individual institutions to implement such a policy.
Your constitutional rights aren't being violated. Perhaps you should read your quote again.
[Amendment X]
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
Doesn't anyone else still read this?? This power is denied to the federal government first and then to lower governments by the above amendment.
Nephilim wrote:I think you need to re-read the quote.
The last time I checked, CONGRESS wasn't passing any laws regarding school uniforms. It is up to the individual institutions to implement such a policy.
Your constitutional rights aren't being violated. Perhaps you should read your quote again.
[Amendment X]
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
Doesn't anyone else still read this?? This power is denied to the federal government first and then to lower governments by the above amendment.
Um...How are school uniforms Unconstitutional?...That makes NO sense...
Last edited by 4X541N7 on Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I would be honored to be regarded as too scary for school. I'm already called that scary goth guy, and I did get kicked out of a chuck e cheese for wearing a gas mask and pink hair while playing skee ball.
That's just ridiciulous... when I lived in Orlando, in '93-95, I knew highschool kids who dressed all weird, and nobody cared at all. I mean, Jesus, there were tons of goths at Winter Park High and nobody was "afraid" of them. What the hell happened to teenagers?
B_Ko wrote:I would be honored to be regarded as too scary for school. I'm already called that scary goth guy, and I did get kicked out of a chuck e cheese for wearing a gas mask and pink hair while playing skee ball.
Is it true that Chuck E. Cheese sells beer...If so I'm having my 21st B-Day there...& B_Ko...You're invited...
