Goth Like Me... well written article

[Ray+Wendy]

::snip::

Um...How are school uniforms Unconstitutional?...That makes NO sense...

They impair(?sp) free speech. I thought I'd covered that already.
at this point Wendy joins the discussion
Constitutional elements aside, we, as parents have fought school uniforms for quite a while here in Nashville. One particular example was our child's only failing grade (She is an honor roll student) It came from a debate over a uniform. Nothing radical mind you, the teacher said it was the wrong color and made the assumption that she was trying to get out of gym class by "hanging with the bad crowd." The code changed the next year, but they still have not removed the grade.

In an event this year, her principal interuppted several classes over hooded sweatshirts. If there ever was an interference with the educational process, it wasn't the "hoodies," it would be the futile attempts of a paranoid administrator to get them banned. Within a month of this incident, the "hoodie" rule was removed from the dress code.

We have no more to add to this, but, We will continue to fight any proposal for "uniforms" or other intolerences in schools. Its just one of those things our kids should not be learning.

[Jack]

You know what? I think highschool kids should be made to wear uniforms in school.

But only if they get to choose whether to go to highschool at all
& what they actually want to learn
& aren't ever required to learn anything they don't want to
& have choices to make their own schedule, like in college
& are considered legal adults by the age of 16
& encouraged to find something they're passionate about
& do that.

Yes, I know I have a Utopian view of how things should be.

But our technology is rapidly approaching the level that would make Utopia possible.

And the velocity of technological innovation keeps increasing. Look at how quickly we went from having computers at all to having an Internet. And then look at how it wasn't that long ago that a 20 meg hard drive was considered a luxury.

But, knowing how stupid humanity seems to be, we'll probably just end up in some screwy Gibson meets Three Stooges future like Philip K. Dick said.

[4X541N7]

::snip::

Um...How are school uniforms Unconstitutional?...That makes NO sense...

They impair(?sp) free speech. I thought I'd covered that already.

Now...How are clothes Free Speech? You do realize that clothing isn't covered in the constitution at all...Right?

Freedom of Speech-The things that you say, public & private...Cannot be held against you, nor be infringed upon by the United States Government...

Also keep in mind, that these rights a instilled upon us equally...As long as we, in expressing these rights, don't infringe upon another's rights...

Just thought I should clairify for you...

BTW, if you feel that you don't want your child in school uniforms, than by all means...Do what you feel is right for your children...I'm not telling you what to do...Don't get me wrong...I'm just trying to explain what the purpose of school uniforms is...& it's not to cut down on violence, or prejudice...It's to prepare them for what the US society expects of them...& if they can snub that, & still make a good niche for themselves...Rock on...

[darkvader]

Uniforms are a wonderful idea. Let's just put all the kids in the orange coveralls that would be fitting for the medium security educational facility that the schools have become.

Seriously, people, the schools of today are more like prisons than schools. The high school I went to only had a fence around the baseball field, and there were doors to the outside in half the classrooms.

Today, the same school has a barbed-wire topped fence that is locked during the day, only two driveways in or out, very limited entrances and exits, and security cameras outside. It's a prison.

What we as a society are doing is treating kids like they're toddlers or criminals right up to the point that they're 18. Do you really think that this is going to produce individuals capable of independent thought, or a bunch of robots and a few total rebels who shoot everybody in sight?

[4X541N7]

Uniforms are a wonderful idea. Let's just put all the kids in the orange coveralls that would be fitting for the medium security educational facility that the schools have become.

Seriously, people, the schools of today are more like prisons than schools. The high school I went to only had a fence around the baseball field, and there were doors to the outside in half the classrooms.

Today, the same school has a barbed-wire topped fence that is locked during the day, only two driveways in or out, very limited entrances and exits, and security cameras outside. It's a prison.

What we as a society are doing is treating kids like they're toddlers or criminals right up to the point that they're 18. Do you really think that this is going to produce individuals capable of independent thought, or a bunch of robots and a few total rebels who shoot everybody in sight?

OK...I can kinda see this...Being as my school had barbed-wire, & such...But...I also see the reason...I mean...What if there was a school shooting...This way...All the police have to do, is lock up the two main gates...& enter the school...Of coarse, they wouldn't enter the school, now would they...I could go on & on about that...But I won't...Anyway...Vader...I think you have a good point, but I don't think that it's the one we should be looking at...

[Ray+Wendy]

Does anyone else watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit? In particular the one last night about fear.

And AXSaint, if you can't figure out the connection between appearance and speech, I will just have to feel sorry for you.

[pryjmaty]

I think the connection between appearance and speech are very close. For example: it's not OK to yell 'fire' in a crowded building when there isn't one. Is it OK to silently walk into a pre-school completely naked? Might be a bad example, but I do see what Ray+Wendy is trying to say.

[karmakaze]

creating an environment where children feel repressed is not going to be psychological benifitial for them or for the learning process.

[Jack]

creating an environment where children feel repressed is not going to be psychological benifitial for them or for the learning process.

It is, however, going to prepare them for society at large. Unfortunately.

[4X541N7]

Does anyone else watch Penn & Teller's Bullshit? In particular the one last night about fear.

And AXSaint, if you can't figure out the connection between appearance and speech, I will just have to feel sorry for you.

I think the connection between appearance and speech are very close. For example: it's not OK to yell 'fire' in a crowded building when there isn't one. Is it OK to silently walk into a pre-school completely naked? Might be a bad example, but I do see what Ray+Wendy is trying to say.

I do see what Ray+Wendy is trying to say...I'm just saying that it's not unconstitutional...The constitution does not protect any right of ours to wear what we feel...That is just sort of implied under the other given rights...I fully comprehend how it falls near 'Free-Speech'...But it doesn't fall under...That's all...The Government has had no reason to pass or update any amendment in the constitution to cover clothing...

[iblis]

I think that if a kid is stupid enough to wear make-up at school, they should have a barcode branded to them, to warn everyone in the future how stupid this person acted as a child.

[karmakaze]

creating an environment where children feel repressed is not going to be psychological benifitial for them or for the learning process.

It is, however, going to prepare them for society at large. Unfortunately.

so we can either have smart kids, or dumb kids who dress nice.

[Jack]

so we can either have smart kids, or dumb kids who dress nice.

Isn't "dumb kids who dress nice" the definition of a "scene" at that age, anyway?

[Mercurygriffin]

creating an environment where children feel repressed is not going to be psychological benifitial for them or for the learning process.

It is, however, going to prepare them for society at large. Unfortunately.

I think we should have classes that teach you how to get back to basiscs. If we are talking about molding these little fuckers to what we want society to be then I want them to know how to hunt and cook their own food, find shelter for warmth, and think idependantly in a logical manner based on facts of the world at large and not religion. Teach ethics, not morals. Teach personal responsablitiy and not "look normal and act like you know what you are doing". I would much prefer that this society learn to look at people by mentality and not by how many other people look just like them. On the other side of the coin, i think that if you take your look to an extream all of the time you should be able to back it up with logic.

[4X541N7]

creating an environment where children feel repressed is not going to be psychological benifitial for them or for the learning process.

It is, however, going to prepare them for society at large. Unfortunately.

I think we should have classes that teach you how to get back to basiscs. If we are talking about molding these little fuckers to what we want society to be then I want them to know how to hunt and cook their own food, find shelter for warmth, and think idependantly in a logical manner based on facts of the world at large and not religion. Teach ethics, not morals. Teach personal responsablitiy and not "look normal and act like you know what you are doing". I would much prefer that this society learn to look at people by mentality and not by how many other people look just like them. On the other side of the coin, i think that if you take your look to an extream all of the time you should be able to back it up with logic.

OK...This I'll agree with...