Farewell to Free Speech

[4X541N7]

No...People think for themselves...They decide what they think...The most you can do is give them information...Things they may, or may not, be able to get on there own...Things that can help them defend themselves...But their original stance, will ultimately, be the same...

[The Stormstress]

4X541N7, I agree with much ov ur rant.

Most peepz don't really wanna kno the truth & u can't make them listen. I don't get up on my soap box nearly so often n-e-more 'bout much ov n-e-thing 4 this verrry reazon. I havn't given up on every1; but, I guess, u could say that I hav learned 2 "chooze my battlez" more wizely.

While I c that many Christianz spawn Christianz, Republicanz spawn Republicanz, & so 4th; I also kno that there r a grrreat many xceptionz. This iz also not 2 say that all Christianz &/or Republicanz r bad, but 2 take on n-e system ov belief &/or thought without careful consideration iz, imo, a verrry bad thing. It iz possible 2 liv beyond ur parentage, upbringing, &/or nvironment. I'v spent a great deal ov time & contemplation developing my ownwayz & choicez, & many other ndividualz hav also developed n this capacity.

So, what'z holding us back from reshaping the field while the herd ( ) con10uez 2 graz? I think that it'z mostly a lack ov cohezion, leadership, & organization. We kno it'z wrong, but we don't kno what 2 do about it ... or how ... or who 2 trust ... Hell, I'll stop b4 my own 'Revolution' rant getz goin' ...

[4X541N7]

4X541N7, I agree with much ov ur rant.

Most peepz don't really wanna kno the truth & u can't make them listen. I don't get up on my soap box nearly so often n-e-more 'bout much ov n-e-thing 4 this verrry reazon. I havn't given up on every1; but, I guess, u could say that I hav learned 2 "chooze my battlez" more wizely.

While I c that many Christianz spawn Christianz, Republicanz spawn Republicanz, & so 4th; I also kno that there r a grrreat many xceptionz. This iz also not 2 say that all Christianz &/or Republicanz r bad, but 2 take on n-e system ov belief &/or thought without careful consideration iz, imo, a verrry bad thing. It iz possible 2 liv beyond ur parentage, upbringing, &/or nvironment. I'v spent a great deal ov time & contemplation developing my ownwayz & choicez, & many other ndividualz hav also developed n this capacity.

So, what'z holding us back from reshaping the field while the herd ( ) con10uez 2 graz? I think that it'z mostly a lack ov cohezion, leadership, & organization. We kno it'z wrong, but we don't kno what 2 do about it ... or how ... or who 2 trust ... Hell, I'll stop b4 my own 'Revolution' rant getz goin' ...

Cohesion, leadership, & organization?...Hmmm...Good thoughts...

[CrimeCore]

First off people change their stances on subjects all the time. I used to eat meat and was proud of it....and now...i no longer eat meat.

Secondly, I've found that a lot of catholic and southern baptist families end up raising atheists.

Lastly, rebellion against "things that we were taught and grew up with" is a part of human history. I don't see how you can feel that education doesn't do any good.
And as far as preaching anarchism or counter culture of any kind in public really loud...to a lot of people...iiiiiiiissssnnnnnn'tttt really the best idea. Especially in the state of our nation at this current time. The patriot act is leaning closer and closer towards "thought crime".(obviously not there yet)

the goal here is to not be arrested. Of course...government agents watch forums...probably not this one though

[Jack]

Secondly, I've found that a lot of catholic and southern baptist families end up raising atheists.

A study indicated that 99.9% of serial killers watched television on a regular basis.

Lastly, rebellion against "things that we were taught and grew up with" is a part of human history.

Yes. Surely learning from the past is the last thing we want to do.

[4X541N7]

First off people change their stances on subjects all the time. I used to eat meat and was proud of it....and now...i no longer eat meat.

Ok...I used to give a shit about alot of people..Now I don't...Idea's change...But, would you say that 'education' of the meat industy, made you decide to stop eating meat?...

Secondly, I've found that a lot of catholic and southern baptist families end up raising atheists.

Yep...Just said that...In fact, I said that my father is a Southern Baptist...I'm an Atheist Agnostic...Point?

Lastly, rebellion against "things that we were taught and grew up with" is a part of human history. I don't see how you can feel that education doesn't do any good.

Sorry if I don't follow the herd...Wait, aren't you an Anarchist...Kidding..Seriously...Just a joke...

And as far as preaching anarchism or counter culture of any kind in public really loud...to a lot of people...iiiiiiiissssnnnnnn'tttt really the best idea. Especially in the state of our nation at this current time.

Wait...Wheren't you preaching about what Anarchy is & is not?...I promote a 'Revolution', yes...There is a reason my signiture is a hyperlink...But, am I promoting Terrorism?...No....Am I promoteing full-on violence?...No...Am I declairing that the end of the 'Democratic'-Spinning-Wheel may be reaching it's final rotation here in the States?...Yes...Do I support this fact?...Yes...Do I want to throw this country into a chaotic & depraved world of Anarchy?...No....If you can face up to the things you believe in...Cower in fear of the Government, & refuse to state your opinions...Then you, my friend, are a pussy...Stand up for what you fuckin' believe in man...Or get the fuck out of my way...

'Shut the fuck up...Sit the fuck down...'

The patriot act is leaning closer and closer towards "thought crime".(obviously not there yet)

I agree...Now, ya gonna bitch, & 'Educate'...Or ya gonna stand up for yourself? Hey...'Find your perfect lil' place in the dirt, & wait for this struggle to end...'

the goal here is to not be arrested. Of course...government agents watch forums...probably not this one though

Um...If they tap your phones...They watch this forum...Echilon sees all, & hears all...You are not safe...'They' are everywhere...It's is now, 'Us & Them'...'Are you a slave...Or are you a Suspect'?...

[The Stormstress]

And as far as preaching anarchism or counter culture of any kind in public really loud...to a lot of people...iiiiiiiissssnnnnnn'tttt really the best idea. Especially in the state of our nation at this current time. The patriot act is leaning closer and closer towards "thought crime".(obviously not there yet)

Gotta say that I'm with 4X541N7 on this 1, 2 ...

N-e-1 NOT willing 2 stand up 4 themselvez & thier beliefz dezervez theze "Patriot Actz" & all that cumz with them , imo... I waz born n2 the land ov the FREE & home ov the BRAVE, not the land ov the OPPRESSED & home ov the WUISSY ... Theze r a few ov the societal valuez with which I ac2ally agree.

BTW, I'm committing "thought crime" right now!

Damn, did it again ... LOL

[4X541N7]

BTW, I'm committing "thought crime" right now!

Damn, did it again ... LOL

I'm pretty sure that the United States Government doesn't concider sexual fantasies, as 'Thought Crimes'...Though, I am flattered...lol...

[The Stormstress]

I wazn't even considering my sexual thought crimez ... that'z a whole other topic ... LOL

[CrimeCore]

You do have to fight for what you believe in to be true to yourself. However, you must also be very careful. There may be very few anarchists or maybe only one in a small locality willing to voice their opinion and educate. If that person is arrested or harrassed by secret agents....then the local progress will be cut short. Think about the underground railroad. Do you think they were out in the streets screaming "ALL BLACKS COME WITH ME TO SAFETY"? I really doubt they did.

And yes...The day I was informed of the reality of meat industry (of course i knew animals were killed in slaughter houses...but i had never seen videos nor did i understand the progresses put forth in animal testing...nor did i know that gelatin contained ground up horse hooves and pork bones) I quit eating meat. Cold fucken Turkey.

If I had either the Money..or a garden..I'd be vegan. BBBBbbbbbutttt that's impossible at the time.

I think it's time for me to resize my avatar

[CrimeCore]

I never really thought of this country as home of the free or brave. Songs are good for talkin people into believing shit without thinking. The minute you're born you're given a number and given a choice of school and work.....or perish...we're not given the choice to go out to BFE and claim land for ourselves and be completely self sufficient...even if we weren't to recieve goods from society. Because then we're not turning the wheel...we're not keeping their houses warm...and that makes them angry.

I never thought of this country as operating under a democracy either. I'm pretty sure it's a republic. Because of the electoral college.

[Jack]

I never really thought of this country as home of the free or brave.

I am like, soooo not patriotic, but from an objective standpoint, I fucking hate people who bitch about how horrible America is. Yes, there may be a couple countries that do some things better than us, but America is by FAR the most culturally and intellectually exciting place anyone could ever hope to live in. And we do have a lot of freedom, more than people like you will ever admit.

So STFU and change the system if it offends you that much.

[4X541N7]

You do have to fight for what you believe in to be true to yourself. However, you must also be very careful.

Being careful?...'Careful' leads to submission...Sorry...But did Ghandi say 'Well, these British are making things bad...Buuuuutttttt...We better be careful, so we don't make things even worse...' or did George Washington try to convince the Colonists to 'tough it out'...'let's not piss 'em off'...NO!

There may be very few anarchists or maybe only one in a small locality willing to voice their opinion and educate. If that person is arrested or harrassed by secret agents....then the local progress will be cut short. Think about the underground railroad. Do you think they were out in the streets screaming "ALL BLACKS COME WITH ME TO SAFETY"? I really doubt they did.

Um....That's a little different...I think that, due to the fact of slaves having NO RIGHTS...It's not quite the same scenario...The difference lying in the fact...That we're supposed to have a few...But, that's ok...I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway...lol...

And yes...The day I was informed of the reality of meat industry (of course i knew animals were killed in slaughter houses...but i had never seen videos nor did i understand the progresses put forth in animal testing...nor did i know that gelatin contained ground up horse hooves and pork bones) I quit eating meat. Cold fucken Turkey.

OK...That's cool...I'm not trying to give you shit for being Veggie...I'm just pointing out that you had some of these ideas before hand...Maybe I'm wrong...Let me reillierate my point...

Most people in Amerika have heard of what's going here...they have heard of the Patriot Acts...They just don't care...They either don't want to be worried by it...Or have more faith in 'The System'...I mean...Bush DIIIIDDDD Get re-fuckin'-elected...Is that not proof enough...



[quote=[CrimeCore]I never really thought of this country as home of the free or brave. Songs are good for talkin people into believing shit without thinking. The minute you're born you're given a number and given a choice of school and work.....or perish...we're not given the choice to go out to BFE and claim land for ourselves and be completely self sufficient...even if we weren't to recieve goods from society. Because then we're not turning the wheel...we're not keeping their houses warm...and that makes them angry. [/quote]
...I agree...Completely...


[quote="CrimeCore]I never thought of this country as operating under a democracy either. I'm pretty sure it's a republic. Because of the electoral college.[/quote]

I think it's fuct...But in all seriousness...Again...I agree...

[CrimeCore]

yeah..I agree...It's a very difficult for us to choose how open we'll be about our views of present day society. Yeah...there's lots worse countries out there...I completely agree with that. And there's a couple better I suppose. But I care about THE PEOPLE. I care about the choices we have as human beings. Not as Amercians. America is defined by what? That's right; Imaginary lines that seperate US from THEM. Boundries that cause conflict and rage.

I understand our government allows us to have certain rights (like they have the right to choose OUR freedoms) that other countries wouldn't. But we have to look at another key issue. While we have these freedoms... there's an old veteran 3 miles down the road starving and cold. I guess the U.S. budget has no room for him. I guess it's up to the people (that don't have that much themselves sometimes) to take care of the poor. Not the people who have the money to spare...correct?

oh shit...did me and trevor agree? lol...to be able to agree on something is nice i suppose.


Oh yeah....um...Jack I'm not so sure what you mean by "people like you" but I'm pretty sure that sounds a little prejudice. Might wanna re-think your thoughts on freedom if you're going to force people into labels like that... Just a thought.

[Jack]

Oh yeah....um...Jack I'm not so sure what you mean by "people like you" but I'm pretty sure that sounds a little prejudice. Might wanna re-think your thoughts on freedom if you're going to force people into labels like that... Just a thought.

I'm an asshole. Ask anybody. That's why they pay me the big bucks.

[4X541N7]

Oh yeah....um...Jack I'm not so sure what you mean by "people like you" but I'm pretty sure that sounds a little prejudice. Might wanna re-think your thoughts on freedom if you're going to force people into labels like that... Just a thought.

I'm an asshole. Ask anybody. That's why they pay me the big bucks.

I pay you the big bucks, 'cause of all those wonderful tricks you can do...

[Alur006]

I just wanted to weigh in on this one, I meant to sooner. The thing about this guy isn't what he's saying. I mean, saying we deserve another 9/11 is pretty fucking up thing to say, and I think he's a douche for doing it. But it's right to say that. The issue at hand is what he is teaching in the classroom. Is he teaching his students this or trying to? Being part of a state school (and thus a state curiculum) his teaching those views in classes where that may not be appropriate is the issue. Now, is firing the guy the solution? No idea, that's between him and his boss. The governer/state legislature doing what they did is a grey area. You can say whatever you want. But saying things in certain crowds is going to get you alienated and make people look for ways to get you out of that crowd. In this instance, look for a reason to fire you.

[CrimeCore]

well...lets see...should kids keep learning standard boring ass state ciriculum...or should they be taught to be open minded/ agree or disagree/ and form opinions of their own....i personally think the latter of the two..it's not like he's telling them to go out and kill people and loot the poor.

[Alur006]

This is a state university, not a public school, it isn't kids. I agree that open thought should be taught, but teaching open thought isn't the accusation here. The issue of his job security revolves entirely around "is he doing what he is paid to do?". The answer is yet to come, I don't know the school's policies for tenured professors to judge whether or not that is the case. But it is the allegation he has to defend himself from.

[Mercurygriffin]

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