Help save 11th St. Expresso House and Fort Kid

[QueenOfTheFlock]

just saw the art work for future and personally i think its very pretty and a good idea but oh well thats neither here nor there if you have the need to hang out with coffee buy a coffee machine and go to each other houses

A person can make a lot of drawings "pretty" but it's not needed...at least not in this specific place. There is lots of space in Knoxville where they could do this and it not affect a) people's livelihoods or b) already beautiful atmosphere and scenery.

One of the greatest things about the Coffee House is it's a somewhat neutral place where new people can come in without intimidation. You can't have that at "each other houses". Shame on you, Dustin.

[Seaneleth]

Mogin nahamou... I'm starting a petition. I can think of four places to get signatures among people I know in the next week.

[QueenOfTheFlock]

Here is the response I received from RPelot:

Libby, thank you for you comments on the Victorian Houses and Ft Kidd. Although I know that some interest is there for leasing and/ or selling to private owners some of that property, I understand from the Administration that it is NOT the intent that either site be demolished or cease to be a part of the city's landscape. I believe it is the expense factor that seeks private use rather than taxpayer involvement. I would never vote to allow demolition of the houses, as they have historic value, nor would I expect that Ft Kidd (which was built with volunteer hours and energy and $$) would not continue to be an asset to the neighborhood children and families of the Ft Sanders area. B Pelot

[JaNell]

Here is the response I received from RPelot:

Libby, thank you for you comments on the Victorian Houses and Ft Kidd. Although I know that some interest is there for leasing and/ or selling to private owners some of that property, I understand from the Administration that it is NOT the intent that either site be demolished or cease to be a part of the city's landscape. I believe it is the expense factor

now that we've blown all that money on the convention center

that seeks private use

Apartments

rather than taxpayer involvement. I would never vote to allow demolition of the houses, as they have historic value,

but those pesky businesses who pay us rent and then keep asking for basic repairs have *got* to go!

nor would I expect that Ft Kidd (which was built with volunteer hours and energy and $$) would not continue to be an asset to the neighborhood children and families of the Ft Sanders area

once we move it to a less sellable location and expand the parking lot for game days

. B Pelot

[judas gnb]

wow i crash my truck,have a bad weekend and then on top of that get chewed out on my views
starbucks anyone?

[Micah]

I loooooove Fort Kidd!

[QueenOfTheFlock]

wow i crash my truck,have a bad weekend and then on top of that get chewed out on my views
starbucks anyone?

Dustin hun...ya know I love you but in case you didn't learn from the middle school thread, there are certain things worth my passion and when I devote my passion to something, if you don't want your toes stepped on it's best to keep them in your boots. Not saying don't speak your opinion, just don't expect it to not be replied to.

Now, you'll have to fill me in sometime soon on what happened last weekend and what happened with the truck.

[The Stormstress]

I sent e-mailz 2 the Council memberz & got theze repliez 2day:

RPelot3@aol.com
Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:28:18 EDT
Re: Ft. Kidd & area Destruction

I do not know how this rumor got started. I have been assured by the Administration that there are no such plans, nor have there ever been. I emailed the Mayor again this morning as the rumor persists. I would not support the demolition of the historic houses, OR the loss of this playground for the Ft Sanders community and all of Knoxville which was built with volunteer hours and energy. Thanks for sharing your concerns. Barbara Pelot

"Ambrose Wilson Grimm Durand" <tennlaw@awgd.com>
Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:22:55 -0400
Re: Ft. Kidd & area Destruction

I've emailed Bill Haslam about an earlier email with concerns similar to yours. There are no plans to tear down anything. I'm sorry that you have been told otherwise.

thanks,

Rob Frost

So, it lookz like a big rumor/hoax ...

[Sir Diddimus]

http://www.ci.knoxville.tn.us/Press_Releases/Content/2004/0902.asp
The actual issue.......

[JaNell]

So, it lookz like a big rumor/hoax ...

Not at all. The plan according to the letter I received, is to sell the Victorian Houses and the Fort Kid parking lot.

While the City "prefers" that the Houses be used as they are now, there will be, at this point, no such guarantee written into the sales contract. The new owners, while constricted by the Historic Overlay to leave the outside of the buildings as they are, can still convert the insides to whatever they choose, such as apartments.

From Cathy Chesney (I added the bold)

"Mr. Golden,
The Victorian Houses are a wonderful example of Knoxville' architectural heritage. They are protected with a historic overlay and thus protected from demolition. As stated in the Request for Proposals, the city's strong preference is to maintain uses similar to those in place today: studios, galleries and/or shops that highlight works indigenous to East Tennessee.
However, the city would like to reduce and/or eliminate public expenditure in these buildings, replacing the city's role with private participation.
There is much potential for these buildings that the city believes should interest the private market.

Fort Kid is not for sale - it is not included in the RFP for World's Fair
Park. We agree that the playground is a huge asset for our residents and visitors, and we are proud that Knoxville citizens dedicated their time and money to create the playground. The parking lot next to the playground may be part of an agreement with whomever the city reaches an agreement with for the various assets.

With regard to citizens servicing or advertising at the Convention Center, we will need more information. The question has arisen about World's Fair Park tenants using the "digital marquee" at Cumberland and 11th Street - we are looking into that issue."

I am friends with a few shop owners there and at the Candy Factory, and not one of them knows if they'll still be there after December.

[Sir Diddimus]

So, it lookz like a big rumor/hoax ...

Not at all. The plan according to the letter I received, is to sell the Victorian Houses and the Fort Kid parking lot.

While the City "prefers" that the Houses be used as they are now, there will be, at this point, no such guarantee written into the sales contract. The new owners, while constricted by the Historic Overlay to leave the outside of the buildings as they are, can still convert the insides to whatever they choose, such as apartments.

From Cathy Chesney (I added the bold)

"Mr. Golden,
The Victorian Houses are a wonderful example of Knoxville' architectural heritage. They are protected with a historic overlay and thus protected from demolition. As stated in the Request for Proposals, the city's strong preference is to maintain uses similar to those in place today: studios, galleries and/or shops that highlight works indigenous to East Tennessee.
However, the city would like to reduce and/or eliminate public expenditure in these buildings, replacing the city's role with private participation.
There is much potential for these buildings that the city believes should interest the private market.

Fort Kid is not for sale - it is not included in the RFP for World's Fair
Park. We agree that the playground is a huge asset for our residents and visitors, and we are proud that Knoxville citizens dedicated their time and money to create the playground. The parking lot next to the playground may be part of an agreement with whomever the city reaches an agreement with for the various assets.

With regard to citizens servicing or advertising at the Convention Center, we will need more information. The question has arisen about World's Fair Park tenants using the "digital marquee" at Cumberland and 11th Street - we are looking into that issue."

I am friends with a few shop owners there and at the Candy Factory, and not one of them knows if they'll still be there after December.

That's funny. It is the exact same reply letter I received from Mayor Haslam.

[JaNell]

I noticed! I didn't send them a form letter.

Hey, another thought: while the City can claim that the Historic Overlay will protect the Houses, I seem to remember another case where a Knoxville developer ignored that overlay, destroyed the property, and got some slap-on-the-wrist fine of $500 or somesuch for it. I'll go hunt for the details...

So, the overlay doesn't make it all OK.

[snarfcat]

I just wanted to say I applaud all of you for trying to keep that part of town for the people, so to speak.

[judas gnb]

I am not trying to cause a hard time but i really feel that only good things could come from this i mean some of the house are in disrepair.I mean look at the blue house across the street from the coffee house and tell me it could use some tlc maybe a bit too much tlc for some folks.I think the city leaders are looking for a good lead into downtown as you come off the interstate and down the strip the project and be seen from both ways.
again just my two cents

[JaNell]

Here's the story re: that developer in MP:

"Thumbing His Nose

A property owner ignores new zoning laws and demolishes six historic homes

It costs $40 to get a permit to tear down a two-story home in historic Fort Sanders.

The maximum fine for razing a home without a permit? $100.

Perhaps with that knowledge in mind, Jerry Hughes went ahead and razed six old early Victorian homes on Highland Avenue and 16th Street on Saturday, circumventing the neighborhood's new NC-1 overlay.

The demolition infuriated historic preservationists, neighborhood activists and city officials, who believe Hughes deliberately broke the law.

"The thing that really bothers me is it's a slap in the face to the Historic Zoning Commission (HZC), the City Council, and the neighborhood association," says Nic Arning, vice chairman of the HZC and president of Knox Heritage. "To just thumb your nose at [their] directives, I'm sure it's going to upset a lot of people."

Under the new NC-1 overlay that most of Fort Sanders falls under, any demolition or new construction must be approved by the Historic Zoning Commission. The houses Hughes razed had been condemned, but Arning says they were still salvageable. In the heart of Fort Sanders, neighborhood activists had worked hard to keep the six houses out of the hands of JPI, the apartment developer that built several complexes around the edges of the neighborhood—most visibly along 11th Street.

Developer Vedat Aboush, who has an option to buy Hughes' property, applied to the HZC a few weeks ago for both a demolition permit and building permit for a three-story residential building.

Aboush was informed that the requests would be denied, Arning says, and they were last Thursday. But the prior Tuesday, Hughes went into the city's development office and managed to get a demolition permit from the clerk (except in certain protected areas, like Fort Sanders or Forth and Gill, no special approval is needed for demolition permits).

Leslie Henderson, the city's director of development, says the clerk was disciplined for mistakenly issuing the permit. But, Henderson adds, Hughes knew razing the houses violated the neighborhood's zoning ordinance.

"He knew this was illegal," Henderson says. "We're certain he knew this was against the law."

Neither Hughes nor Aboush could be reached for comment.

Arning says a number of people have been negotiating with Hughes to buy some of the homes. However, Hughes wanted to sell them all as one property—his most recent asking price was reportedly $600,000.

Henderson said the city will fine Hughes the maximum it can—$100 for each house demolished, or a total $600. "The most anyone can be fined for violating any of the regulations of this department is $100. That's something we've been trying to get changed for a long time," Henderson says.

Arning says the plans that Aboush presented to the Historic Zoning Commission are exactly what neighborhood activists and preservationists have been trying to stop. "It was a long row of apartments, three stories tall, with very little decoration," he says.

Arning says that until now the NC-1 overlay—established after several months of meetings of the Fort Sanders Forum, which included city officials, property owners, developers, preservationists, University of Tennessee administrators and hospital officials—had been working.

"[The demolition] sets a precedent of thumbing your noses at the regulations," Arning says. Other property owners are probably watching closely.

—Joe Tarr "

[JaNell]

I am not trying to cause a hard time but i really feel that only good things could come from this i mean some of the house are in disrepair.I mean look at the blue house across the street from the coffee house and tell me it could use some tlc maybe a bit too much tlc for some folks.I think the city leaders are looking for a good lead into downtown as you come off the interstate and down the strip the project and be seen from both ways.
again just my two cents

The City has failed to repair the houses. Granted. I suspect that it has been a deliberate neglect, hoping to allow them to become condemnable so that they can be sold off to developers (*cough* relatives).

One thing that can easily happen:
New owner buys the area.
City, which has failed to maintain them to code, condemns them shortly thereafter because they don't meet code.
New owner loses them.
City gets them back, tears down houses, resales property.

Not that I'm cynical or anything.

The loss of that area as it is would be a great loss to the community.

[QueenOfTheFlock]

I am not trying to cause a hard time but i really feel that only good things could come from this i mean some of the house are in disrepair.I mean look at the blue house across the street from the coffee house and tell me it could use some tlc maybe a bit too much tlc for some folks.I think the city leaders are looking for a good lead into downtown as you come off the interstate and down the strip the project and be seen from both ways.
again just my two cents

I have a feeling, and I could be wrong here, that you're looking at this as just losing a place some of us consider great to hang out. It's about so much more than that....there are people's jobs and livelihoods on the line here. I just don't understand how you can thumb your nose like that..

[judas gnb]

Libby dear im not thumbing my nose. I just think its a really great chance to use the property better. Does it suck people could lose jobs yes,but many more will be gained through this growing pain. I also feel the fort area is prime land and I for one want it be used better.

[QueenOfTheFlock]

I don't see it "creating" jobs. I see it being used for track housing if anything and that's just not a beneficial reason to me. There's too much housing already and if they need more, they can find other places and build there.

[JaNell]

I don't see it "creating" jobs. I see it being used for track housing if anything and that's just not a beneficial reason to me. There's too much housing already and if they need more, they can find other places and build there.

Don't be too hard on the boy, Libby. He just doesn't value it because Loretta won't allow rasslin' and it's been a long time since we've had a Kareoke Night there.