Ban on female genital piercings in Geogia

[Coor]

Woohoo I quoted myself.

Do you routinely read bills and immediately spot every negative consequence in them?

after that the quotes are all me! WOOHOO!

[Dancing With Diaghilev]

The electorial college is used in PRESDIENTIAL voting.

That's all fine and dandy, but I never mentioned "the elctorial college [sic]". I said the "electoral system". Hence, you misread a word I wrote and ascribed a completely different meaning to it.

You couldn't even read my paragraph without altering the meaning significantly. You expect me to believe that everyone is an "idiot" who didn't notice that the added inclusion of one little word radically altered a bill? Give me a break. You've already shown to me you either (a) casually read over my argument or (b) don't understand the difference between the "electoral system" and the "electoral college".

I'm not saying you are dumb, because I don't think you are. But I don't think you realize the complexities of language and the difficulties of reading hundreds of pages of legalese in a short period of time and being expected to notice how little tiny variations in word choices can radically alter the meaning of something.

I was unaware that the whole senate, and that the state Senate ( who passed this law, because it was a state, not national
law).

I never mentioned the Feds, did I?

In fact, the link I provided was to the Georgia House's official website. That should have clued you in, even with your "electorial college [sic]" misunderstanding.

Also are you telling me that there are NO independent local and state repersentives?

There are no independent state representatives. Georgia's laws are very unfavorable to anyone not in one of the two major parties. And since you are oh, so aware of your own government, you might inform yourself that there are no independent state representatives in your own state government either. I'm sure you knew that already, right?

i beg to differ on that, and I believe you know that your statement was semi-bias.

Everyone is "biased", so I'm not sure what your point is.

This is called educating yourself. If you let a 30 second commericial dictate how you vote, chances are you shouldn't be voting. However, every moron has a right to vote. That's the way our country is built. If you don't like it, emmigrate.

We're not talking about commercials, are we? We're talking about the news media. You know, the people who tell you "the news".

Actually yes. i try to read the Congressional Record whenever I can get ahold of one. In case you don't know, that's the litteral record of what is said, and the enitre bill per congressional session

I'm quite sure I know what the Congressional Record is, being that I've spent a year in law school. Though, it's actually not a "litteral [sic]" record of everything said. In fact, a lot of the things in the Congressional Record are never said at all. Any legislator can "amend" their debate after the fact to say something completely different.

As a citizen of this country, I inform myself, that is my duty. Tht is actually in the Federalist papers. If i was gonna take advise from a politican it would be those guys.

I'm not sure who you are trying to convince: me or yourself. You're doing a bad job of convincing me, though.

Again, this is a STATE not FEDERAL issue. They are TOTALLY differant. Sometimes, I feel as if I am the only person who didn't sleep through governemnt.

You do realize that Georgia has a House, right? Or did you just forget to click on the link once again and realize this was a link to the Georgia legislature. Silly me, I would have thought someone who takes so many opportunities to educate their self about the government would have clicked a link and actually bothered to see what it was they were commenting upon.

Or for that matter, if you merely READ the link (and didn't even click on it), you would have realized it was a link to an official website of the government of the state of Georgia. I guess you were worn out from all that Congressional Record reading you have been doing.

Btw, I have spent a year in law school and it's not real difficult for me to tell when someone is completely talking out of their ass.

Again, when you vote in FUNDAMENTALISTS they are going to make FUNDAMENTALIST laws.

So you're argument is that everyone in the Georgia House and Senate is a "fundamentalist" now, right? Do you live in Midtown Atlanta? Do you know the people who represent us in Midtown Atlanta? Do you grasp that they are some of the most progressive people in the nation? Do you grasp that they are not ALL fundamentalists?

I have yet to see the point you were trying to make for me.

Somehow, I'm not surprised

If you don't agree with things. Call, write, visit, and annoy the shit outta your repersenatives. I

Yeah, uhhhh, I do that. And my point is that most Georgians don't support a law that bans voluntary genital piercing for women and one shouldn't assume that nearly everyone in the state of Georgia is an "idiot" because some legislator managed to slip by an amendment that radically altered a bill by merely inserting one word into it.

bet most people don't even know what district Knoxville area is. I live in the 2nd District.

That's because most people don't live in Knoxville. Regardless, it's not difficult to point out one's districts since they are listed on your friggin' voting card. I was a political science major and have spent a year in law school, so excuse me if I don't buy into your theory that people who can read their voter registration card are magically informed of the workings of their government.

that make OUR laws in Nashville?

Well, I'm quite sure I don't live in Tennessee and that my laws are made in Georgia; being that I live in Atlanta.

[Coor]

That's all fine and dandy, but I never mentioned "the elctorial college [sic]". I said the "electoral system". Hence, you misread a word I wrote and ascribed a completely different meaning to it.

From the way that it was written I presumed, that was what you were speaking about. Thus, another point. People take things in differant ways. Which is how bills get passed

You couldn't even read my paragraph without altering the meaning significantly. You expect me to believe that everyone is an "idiot" who didn't notice that the added inclusion of one little word radically altered a bill? Give me a break. You've already shown to me you either (a) casually read over my argument or (b) don't understand the difference between the "electoral system" and the "electoral college".

First of all if you use the term article loosely, then yes you could call it that. I would just deem it an opinion. Second, I took a point that I noticed, which I precieved inncorectly, from you, then again, we weren't speaking and I had to go with an implied tone, and mood.


OK, my IM info is there, as well as my PM. I would love to continue this discussion, however, I don't want to fuck up and say somthing that might be percieved as "a personal" attack, and get me banned. Thus, if you continue to discuss, I am willing.

[Dancing With Diaghilev]

From the way that it was written I presumed, that was what you were speaking about. Thus, another point. People take things in differant ways. Which is how bills get passed

Enlighten me. How was it was written that would have lead one to assume otherwise?

And the fact that people take things in different ways is exactly my point. People looked over the provision and didn't realize one line of the bill banned genital piercing completely, rather than simply banning it for minors. It does not make most Georgians "idiots" just because a group of legislators didn't happen to notice that this one word altered the bill radically; especially considering the size of the docket. It's not practical for legislators to read every detail in every bill and conclude every ramification. It's a bigger problem on the state level than the Federal level, because Federal legislators have bigger staffs, whereas, some state legislators have hardly any at all (maybe just an intern who works for a few legislators).

OK, my IM info is there, as well as my PM. I would love to continue this discussion, however, I don't want to fuck up and say somthing that might be percieved as "a personal" attack, and get me banned. Thus, if you continue to discuss, I am willing.

Then don't say anything that might be perceived as a "personal attack", sillyhead

[Coor]

And the fact that people take things in different ways is exactly my point. People looked over the provision and didn't realize one line of the bill banned genital piercing completely, rather than simply banning it for minors. It does not make most Georgians "idiots" just because a group of legislators didn't happen to notice that this one word altered the bill radically; especially considering the size of the docket. It's not practical for legislators to read every detail in every bill and conclude every ramification. It's a bigger problem on the state level than the Federal level, because Federal legislators have bigger staffs, whereas, some state legislators have hardly any at all (maybe just an intern who works for a few legislators).

What kind of legislator would leave something like that out and not notice? Which all leads back to who you elect as officals. Also, I want my state legislator to read every paragraph, every sentence, every footnote, and every single fucking word, in every single bill that is purposed to be passed. Granted you living in GA, and thus calling Georgians idiots, could have been an issue I should of thought about before. However, I don't give a shit about people's feeling, I say the trusth. The truth is, the same that it is for the nation. When the leaders of a state, or nation-state, make a poor decision, their judgement effects how people look at their constituants. People percieve Americans stupid, because our own fucking president can't pronounce nuclear correctly. I agree, that if I was a citizen in France, or Germany, that I would look and think" stupid Americans." Most people in the world do. Now does that mean that I think EVERY SINGLE American is stupid? No. It just means that if his jackass reperesents the majority, that the majority must be rather on the slow side. Same goes for Georgia. Everyone is seeing them as sexist, conservatives, because of this bill. With the truth be told, most of them are sexist conservatives, but not all. And, I didn't want anything that I said precieved as a personal attack.[/code]

[Dancing With Diaghilev]

What kind of legislator would leave something like that out and not notice?

Considering the fact that over 50 items were up for a vote that day, a hell of a lot.

And the original bill (the one I might add you still haven't bothered to read) didn't mention piercing so it was irrelevant then. People assumed the piercing amendment only applied to those under 18, because (most likely) they mistakenly trusted a colleague and assumed no one would do something so ridiculous.

Which all leads back to who you elect as officals.

But under your own logic, you're probably also a moron. Unless you're always voting for obscure third party or independent candidates (and possibly even then). Most of the time, the two major party candidates are both incompetent (this is especially true in Tennessee).

Also, I want my state legislator to read every paragraph, every sentence, every footnote, and every single fucking word, in every single bill that is purposed to be passed.

It's impractical. That's why I know you're full of it when you claim you routinely read bills out of the Congressional record. Bill are oftentimes hundreds of pages long.

There are oftentimes, bills like this one: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.1833:

(and click on "printer-friendly version for full text".)

The bill I linked to is 196 pages long. State legislatures are even busier than the Federal one (the bill I linked to is Federal). How is one person supposed to read that on top of 14 other bills and be expected to know everything in it over the course of a week? Are you claiming you can do this? You could read thousands and thousands of pages of legalese every week and thoroughly analyze every word (to do this, you would have to check through other legal resources to see if any common legal phrases were used, do searches of court decisions on databases, etc.)?

You don't have quite the knowledge of government that you think you do. There is so much legislation and so much to consider these days it makes it difficult for any legislator to go through all this. In fact, there is not a single legislator in this country who reads every word or every bill; much less read it and analyze it all thoroughly.

Committees, sub-committees, and sub-sub-committees are set up in most legislatures to deal with this abundance of work. Oftentimes committees only consist of a few people and other legislators just get a summary or the bill from a trusted colleague and get the jist of the bill from debate on the subject. Even with all the committees it's impossible for legislators to read everything in bills quite often. That's why they hire staffs. On the state level, most of these staffs are shrinking due to budget cuts and were small to begin with.

Obviously, this is a problem, but it does not mean that all legislators are morons or that the people voting for them are idiotic, as well. It's a reality of living in a country of 300 million people or living in a state with several million and only having a very small handful of people to write the laws.

Granted you living in GA, and thus calling Georgians idiots, could have been an issue I should of thought about before.

It's not that much of an issue. I'm not offended or anything. Georgia, as crappy as it is, is better than Tennessee (and I know that from living in TN for 22 years). It's just if you're going to call them "idiots", you should at least find a good reason to do so.

People percieve Americans stupid, because our own fucking president can't pronounce nuclear correctly.

Who cares how he pronounces "nuclear"? I'm not going to defend Bush's intelligence, but you make yourself more credible if you actually attack him on something of substance rather than claiming his alleged mis-pronounciation of the word "nuclear" is something that makes him stupid.

Everyone is seeing them as sexist, conservatives, because of this bill. With the truth be told, most of them are sexist conservatives, but not all. And, I didn't want anything that I said precieved as a personal attack.

I'm not going to disagree that there are many "conservative" and "sexist" Georgians. Simply that despite that, most Georgians do not support this and it has only passed because a legislator managed to slip by an amendment that radically changed a bill without anyone realizing the ramifications until afterwards. You can read all the demonizing, oversimplistic articles you like, but I guarantee you that you would not have noticed this yourself. Very few people would have.

[Coor]

And the original bill (the one I might add you still haven't bothered to read

First off I never said that I hadn't read the bill. You assumed that, thus creating your own version. However, it's a fucking pussy piercing, and honestly I don't want to have to keep coming back, reading your post, look for your fuck ups and then have to repost them with my opinion. Considering i purpose to move this into a final statement phase.

We both have vaild points, however they are the same on the polotical spectrum.

Olk, there we go, standard statement.

[Dancing With Diaghilev]

First off I never said that I hadn't read the bill.

I assumed it since when I provided a link to the bill, you assumed the link was a Federal site and not a state site. Since you seemed quite unaware of how to locate the bill, one could logically conclude you had not read it (or if you did read it - you assumed it was a Federal bill and not a state bill -and hence, assumed you hadn't read it))

However, it's a fucking pussy piercing, and honestly I don't want to have to keep coming back, reading your post, look for your fuck ups and then have to repost them with my opinion.

Now that's funny. The only "fuck ups" you found thus far have been your own (mistaking the "electoral system" for the "electorial college [sic]" and mistaking state sites for Federal sites). You could just admit you don't know what you're talking about and that your rant on the idiocy of Georgians was based on your emotional reaction rather than any well-thought out discourse on democratic governance.

We both have vaild points, however they are the same on the polotical spectrum.

The "polotical spectrum" is irrelevant. Bad laws get passed for other reasons than ideology. And uhhh, we're all on the same political spectrum; that's why it's a "spectrum". It measures the relationship between all the groups and individuals in a system. Thus, by definition, everyone is on it.

Though, I'm willing to shut up now as well seeing as this discussion is going nowhere

[Coor]

I thought, that YOU thought, that it was a federal bill. That';s how come I kept making distinct differances between federal, and state. LMAO! Ah, the irony.