Here's a topic that will probably end up in goth geek, but....
Some places (coffee houses, bars, hotels) etc are offering open connections to the web for wireless laptop users. While discussing this stuff with someone at a bar came this question...
is it ethically wrong to use an open wireless network to get on the net?
Not talking about here "use our connection" like above, but an unknown network (too you)
for example you find in you apartment or house that someone in the building or in your neighborhood has left an open unprotected wireless connection that you are able to connect to the net through at your home.
Further should you attempt to find who it is and let them know they have an open network?
Some might say that if it's open, it free to use. Others might might say... no way, someone is paying for that bandwidth.
In a time of expanding communication... Whats your take?
Wireless ethics
Wireless ethics
Be Scene, Not Herd
Bone's Lair
Bone's Lair
Being that I'm a generally nice guy (or I try to be), I would probably try to notify someone that they have an open network....assuming it's an obviously home-user type network.
If it's a corporate network, then connect away. Shame on the IT guys for not securing it, they should be fired to give someone a little more security concious a job.
After all, say someone that's a tad morally deficient comes along and decides that they was want to participate in some less-than-legal activities and it's detected by the authorities......well, whoever is in charge or owns the network will be held accountable.
If it's a corporate network, then connect away. Shame on the IT guys for not securing it, they should be fired to give someone a little more security concious a job.
After all, say someone that's a tad morally deficient comes along and decides that they was want to participate in some less-than-legal activities and it's detected by the authorities......well, whoever is in charge or owns the network will be held accountable.
NashvilleGothic.com - Administrator
Salvation in Nashville - co-founding DJ
Salvation in Nashville - co-founding DJ
I'd use it, and what's more, if I can find someone in my neighborhood with it, I'm building one of those Pringles can amplifier things to aim it right at the casa!
Look at it like this: people who don't control their signal are recklessly sending signals through the air doing who-knows-what. THEIR signal is in MY air space! If your chicken invades my yard, poops and then lays an egg, is it stealing to eat the egg?
If I had an idea whose signal it was, I *would* tell them...
And keep right on using it until they fixed it.
Look at it like this: people who don't control their signal are recklessly sending signals through the air doing who-knows-what. THEIR signal is in MY air space! If your chicken invades my yard, poops and then lays an egg, is it stealing to eat the egg?
If I had an idea whose signal it was, I *would* tell them...
And keep right on using it until they fixed it.
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vicious_blood
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celticsmith
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Hello!.....Pirate!
Seriously though...open connections that don't have encoding are often the result of laziness....You would be amazed at how many open networks there are around here...and all it takes is three seconds to encode a connection. The people who buy the computers (all newer laptops come with wireless standard) are told that they need to encode their wireless....as are the people who buy the wireless LAN networks. But obviously, that is not a big issue. I mean REALLY....why?....WHY? Why does Buddy's Barbeque have an open network connection....Why do they have a connection at all?
No doubt...once the practice of encoding networks is comonplace...some overly clever individual will come up with a simple software solution that can crack that encoding.
I work for a military contractor....do you know what their solution is?...They don't use wireless LAN....EVER....somtimes they even black out buildings so Cell phones are useless as well.....and cell phones with camera attachments....Fugettaboutit!
There was a report onNPR about a small town that wired up the whole town for wireless LAN.....the network is encoded and requires a passcode.....They determined that no Business would equip the town with high speed internet...so They elected to use money from the towns tax base to establish the base network....the then sell passcodes for access for a monthly fee....withing two months the program was self sustaining. The Tax money was paid back into the town's treasury and now all the profits are fed back into the program to expand and improve service......
But...back on topic....
Wardriving and warchalking....Driving around with your computer looking for open network connections is Wardriving. It is quite the hobby.... Warchalking is named after to process of marking buildings that have open networks in large cities....much like Hobo's used to do.
Personally....I find it to be a pain in the ass to get in my car and drive down to Buddy's.....or the UTK Library....or any of a number of places ...just to get on the internet......I'd rather sit at home and sip my fine Rum and surf on DIAL-UP!....
I am all about the comfort factor.
I wonder if I could convince my Neighbor to get a wireless LAN?
Seriously though...open connections that don't have encoding are often the result of laziness....You would be amazed at how many open networks there are around here...and all it takes is three seconds to encode a connection. The people who buy the computers (all newer laptops come with wireless standard) are told that they need to encode their wireless....as are the people who buy the wireless LAN networks. But obviously, that is not a big issue. I mean REALLY....why?....WHY? Why does Buddy's Barbeque have an open network connection....Why do they have a connection at all?
No doubt...once the practice of encoding networks is comonplace...some overly clever individual will come up with a simple software solution that can crack that encoding.
I work for a military contractor....do you know what their solution is?...They don't use wireless LAN....EVER....somtimes they even black out buildings so Cell phones are useless as well.....and cell phones with camera attachments....Fugettaboutit!
There was a report onNPR about a small town that wired up the whole town for wireless LAN.....the network is encoded and requires a passcode.....They determined that no Business would equip the town with high speed internet...so They elected to use money from the towns tax base to establish the base network....the then sell passcodes for access for a monthly fee....withing two months the program was self sustaining. The Tax money was paid back into the town's treasury and now all the profits are fed back into the program to expand and improve service......
But...back on topic....
Wardriving and warchalking....Driving around with your computer looking for open network connections is Wardriving. It is quite the hobby.... Warchalking is named after to process of marking buildings that have open networks in large cities....much like Hobo's used to do.
Personally....I find it to be a pain in the ass to get in my car and drive down to Buddy's.....or the UTK Library....or any of a number of places ...just to get on the internet......I'd rather sit at home and sip my fine Rum and surf on DIAL-UP!....
I am all about the comfort factor.
I wonder if I could convince my Neighbor to get a wireless LAN?
Q: What do pirates from India call their flag?
A: The Jolly Raja
A: The Jolly Raja
So I only recently cut my umbilical and went wireless ...today as a matter of fact....w00t!....Where are some of the local places with known wireless...Im assuming maybe panera bread and heh buddys bbq...anywhere else a girl should know about?
I give her sadness and the gift of pain,
a new moon madness and a love of rain.
- - - -Dorothy Parker "The Godmother
a new moon madness and a love of rain.
- - - -Dorothy Parker "The Godmother
jjenisis wrote:So I only recently cut my umbilical and went wireless ...today as a matter of fact....w00t!....Where are some of the local places with known wireless...Im assuming maybe panera bread and heh buddys bbq...anywhere else a girl should know about?
Krystal on the Strip, surprisingly.
If she were a street gang, I'd go to war with her with bottles and chains.
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elasticwings
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I would absolutely connect to it. The first thing I would do is look for open network shares. I mean really. If they don't think security is important enough to secure their wireless; I highly doubt they bothered with securing any shares they have as well. Sometime after I got done cyphering all the media off of their computer. I would probably start crippling their network by making it my p2p pipe. That would pretty much cause them to either secure their network or drop their service. The best part is, if they call their service providers and complain about it. First thing tech support is going to ask them is if they are connected to the internet via a router. The next thing they will tell them is that they do not support it. I know the Bellsouth 2Wire kit comes preequipped with a key. Surely, the user wouldn't go out of their way to remove the security. If so, I would imagine the tech will just have them put it back on. Either way, your chances of being caught are extremely slim to none. As far as ethics go, well anybody in my neighborhood with an open wireless connection is very very lucky that I do not have the need for wireless in my house.
"Solaris x86 is now where Linux was 4 years ago"
Well, my take on it is that a wireless access point is by its nature advertising its presence and telling you that it either is or isn't available. If it's protected AT ALL, it is telling you it isn't available.
If it isn't protected, it's saying "I'm here, use me." And if the owner doesn't know it's saying that, they should have read the manual, or asked someone with a clue.
And for those of you with wireless access points - if you haven't turned on encryption, you are advertising the access point's availability to the world. If that's what you wanted to do, great. If not, fix it.
As for me, if I had more bandwidth to spare, I'd probably have an unprotected access point - outside my firewall, of course. But for now, mine is locked down - unless I've given you access. And those I've given access know who you are.
If it isn't protected, it's saying "I'm here, use me." And if the owner doesn't know it's saying that, they should have read the manual, or asked someone with a clue.
And for those of you with wireless access points - if you haven't turned on encryption, you are advertising the access point's availability to the world. If that's what you wanted to do, great. If not, fix it.
As for me, if I had more bandwidth to spare, I'd probably have an unprotected access point - outside my firewall, of course. But for now, mine is locked down - unless I've given you access. And those I've given access know who you are.
We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
would I? you betcha. in fact there have been several times when working on our network, or on someone elses that it has been usefull to jump on some other companies unsecure wireless connection to check something.
ethically I don't see any problem with it, as long as you're resepectful of that fact that you're not paying for it, and that anything you do, on THEIR network, they are responsible for.
If you're sucking down bandwidth and causing a slow down or problem with someone's network it's unethical. If you're P2P'ing movies or mp3's or whatever and some *AA comes down and throws your unknowing provider in jail and/or costs them thousands of $ in court costs... I'd say that's a little unethical. Granted, they should have secured their network but still it's not really 'right'.
when you get right down to it, it's alot like many such situations of the information sharing age. Like p2p file sharing, if you don't abuse it, there's really nothing wrong with it (no matter what the *AA's say), but if you abuse it (and it's easy to do), yeah it is unethical. If that bothers you or not though is a totally different question.
And then of course there's the legallity of it. There were quite a few attempts by cable companies and other ISP's not to long ago to get laws passed making wireless network sharing, not to mention wired sharing, illegal. If you have a DSL or Cable connection, there's a real good chance that it's illegal to share your bandwidth (much likeit's illegal to run a cable over to your neightbors house to share cable TV) even if you're doing it without knowing about it.
Everyone should take a little time to learn about the technology they use. As is often stated, in the courts ignorance is no excuse.
ethically I don't see any problem with it, as long as you're resepectful of that fact that you're not paying for it, and that anything you do, on THEIR network, they are responsible for.
If you're sucking down bandwidth and causing a slow down or problem with someone's network it's unethical. If you're P2P'ing movies or mp3's or whatever and some *AA comes down and throws your unknowing provider in jail and/or costs them thousands of $ in court costs... I'd say that's a little unethical. Granted, they should have secured their network but still it's not really 'right'.
when you get right down to it, it's alot like many such situations of the information sharing age. Like p2p file sharing, if you don't abuse it, there's really nothing wrong with it (no matter what the *AA's say), but if you abuse it (and it's easy to do), yeah it is unethical. If that bothers you or not though is a totally different question.
And then of course there's the legallity of it. There were quite a few attempts by cable companies and other ISP's not to long ago to get laws passed making wireless network sharing, not to mention wired sharing, illegal. If you have a DSL or Cable connection, there's a real good chance that it's illegal to share your bandwidth (much likeit's illegal to run a cable over to your neightbors house to share cable TV) even if you're doing it without knowing about it.
Everyone should take a little time to learn about the technology they use. As is often stated, in the courts ignorance is no excuse.
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Melicious Scam
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Melicious Scam wrote:I would use it, hands down. And if it was my connection that I paid for, I wouldn't care who used it either.
That's a problem, and probably the way alot of people think. Think about it like this, if you have a car, would you let just anyone walk up to you and say 'hey, can I borrow your car' and let them? If you owned a gun, would you let some random person off the stree borrow it? If you let someone use a connection that you are paying for, you are responsible for what they do. If they do something illegal (and trust me, the internet is one place where we're loosing rights at a shockingly quick pace) YOU are responsible. If some random person pulls up outside your house, sets up a server that gives people access to illegal kiddy porn and someone reports it.. they trace where it's coming from, find out you are the one paying for the connection, and send YOU to jail. Not only that but computer crime is in several cases punished quite more severly than real world crime.
here's 1 example:
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid= ... 55&tid=133
Nephilim wrote:Being that I'm a generally nice guy (or I try to be), I would probably try to notify someone that they have an open network....assuming it's an obviously home-user type network.
If it's a corporate network, then connect away. Shame on the IT guys for not securing it, they should be fired to give someone a little more security concious a job.
After all, say someone that's a tad morally deficient comes along and decides that they was want to participate in some less-than-legal activities and it's detected by the authorities......well, whoever is in charge or owns the network will be held accountable.
Good points Nephilim.
If you ever want to see how many broadcast points any city has you can make a "war driver" setup with a laptop, any good magnetically mounted antenna, and free software.
Simple test run I did for Nashville:
Just start at the riverfront and work your way up to the park and then across the 440 and back down 21st and see how many points are around just that one area. The setup I was running only gets APs that have a broadcast of the SSID.
I had about 40-60 before I even got past the car dealerships!
I know one of the homes around the park "had" an open AP because I use to sit in the shade and plunk away with a few friends.
Also a lot of the “medicalâ€
"There's so much happiness behind these tears."
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Hardcoregirl
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I am of the opinion that if any signals are passing through my body, I have every right to intercept them and in this case use them for my benefit.
Wireless at UT is terribly hit or miss...I get it in some classes and some not, even though it is supposed to be this MASSIVE system I can't even usually get a signal in my anthro dept.
But, I do get to fuck around online in my classes in humanities and the nuclear engineering building...wee...
I think Wasted Potential will have wireless...and be a 24 hour coffee house at some point in the next few years
< / pipe dream>
Wireless at UT is terribly hit or miss...I get it in some classes and some not, even though it is supposed to be this MASSIVE system I can't even usually get a signal in my anthro dept.
But, I do get to fuck around online in my classes in humanities and the nuclear engineering building...wee...
I think Wasted Potential will have wireless...and be a 24 hour coffee house at some point in the next few years
< / pipe dream>
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Hardcoregirl
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