Ban on female genital piercings in Geogia

[Vachy]

here: http://www.bmezine.com/news/pubring/20040325.html

... Why must stupid political people try to ban things so personal? This doesn't even begin to compare with how horrible the bans on gay people and their marriages are, but it's still a violation of what should be a personal freedom.

[The Stormstress]

OMG ... It'z not good 2 hav the ban at all, but women only ... Georgia iz just askin' 4 trouble!

[Space Traveler 9]

I should gather a group of people to have a female genital piercing festival. That would be great. Fucking Georgia, suck my ass!!

[Vachy]

Piercing for a cause, lol, that would kick ass. I'd go!

[Cryso lueth Wylthen]

That is indeed why I hate the south. Stupid fucking conservative bastards.
What are they going to ban next? Guys with long hair?
I

[X]

Eh does it really matter....its an hour tops any point in georgia to florida, south carolina, alabama or tennessee.....the woman in general could just drive to said other state, and get it done there.

[blindboy]

Thats not the point X. Yeah they could drive to another state to get it done but they shouldn't have to. If a woman wants to put a hole in her body who gave GA the right to say no? Yeah fuck them this is bullshit.

[DeadSoul]

Too bad there's no way for the women of Georgia to flaunt their genital piercings in public...

[Monophonic]

It never ceases to amaze me how far the goverment will go to try to conform society to its own set of moral standards. I hate shit like that.

[X]

Eh you also can't have oral sex in georgia....what a bunch of fuckheads.


And i know thats not the point.....but it still there.

[Mother Mo]

This is undoubtedly the effect of the recent case on Female Genital Mutilation in Georgia. A muslim father had his 2 year old daughter's clitoris removed, as per the custom in his native country. The girl's American mother had a fit about it because it happened without her consent. Now they're reacting to one problem & creating issues with piercings along the way.

Someone needs to sit them down and explain the vast differences between the things.

[Vachy]

Removed...ouchy.

Whoever made the jump from mutilation to modification should have realized a two year old child doesn't make her own decisions, and an adult woman choosing to get a piercing does.

As for the ban on oral sex, didn't Tennessee only remove it's sodomy law a few years ago? *sigh* Southern backwardness and conservatives...ugh.

[Coor]

Look, when you live in fucking conservatistville, yea they are gonna pass laws. also, when the majority of the people passing these laws are A- Male, and B- fundamentalist Christians, of course the laws are gonna be sexist. Look, at the fucking constitution and you can get that. I disagree with the whole thing, but am I shocked? No, it is very typical of a place like that, to pass a jackass law. look at the majority of the population there, that's what that majority wants, and unfortunatly that what they got. Am I pissed? Hell Yea! However, they elect thier officials, if people thave a problem there, they have to start voting in people who aren't complete jackasses. That is all.

[Dancing With Diaghilev]

The rumor is that the legislature is going to go back and reconsider this. At least 2 members have come out and said they did not realize it banned voluntary piercings for those over 18 years old.

Thankfully, thousands of people sent letters to their representatives protesting this, so those who voted for this on mistaken assumptions will hopefully either (a) vote it down this time or (b) amend the damned thing so it only bans involuntary genital mutilation rather than voluntary piercing.

[littlepockit]

many people don't see the difference between mutilation and modification. its ignorance, really. it would be different if they possibly put higher restrictions on get the piercings done, but i don't think that would have appeased the masses. i do not agree with the ban, but most state governments make rulings due to public opinion. i am guessoing that people in georgia are much like people here,
WASPs (White Angle Saxon Protestant).

[RavenLunatic]

That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Once again, DUMBASS HILLBILLIES!!!!

[Dancing With Diaghilev]

many people don't see the difference between mutilation and modification.

The difference is purely semantics. They describe the same concept. It's just one is a positive term and one a negative term.

Hence, we apply the word "mutilation" to the things we don't like and words like "modification" to things we don't have a problem with. Though, I realize i sound like a lawyer saying that . Damned legal education!

i do not agree with the ban, but most state governments make rulings due to public opinion. i am guessoing that people in georgia are much like people here,
WASPs (White Angle Saxon Protestant).

Honestly, I think it's unfair to characterize most Georgians as 'backwards' and 'idiotic' because their legislators are either lazy or unable to comprehend the legalities of the bills they vote on. There was no debate on this message, which is a good clue that most of these people who voted for the bill had no idea what they were voting for. But the thing said it 'opposed genital mutilation' and by God, who doesn't oppose genital mutilation?

This is more a sympton of a crappy, irresponsiblie government and media oversimplication of the political process (but it would take me a good while to write about the connection between the two - so I won't). I don't think most Georgians supported this.

[Coor]

Honestly, I think it's unfair to characterize most Georgians as 'backwards' and 'idiotic' because their legislators are either lazy or unable to comprehend the legalities of the bills they vote on.

Ummm... I have a question. Isn't the purpose of repersenatives, both federal and local, to represent the people. So if they are the law makers and decision makers, they were voted in BY THE PEOPLE. And since you said that they were "unable to comprehend the legalities of the bills they vote on.' Would that also make them idiotic. I mean I don't have a degree, hell I haven't even graduated yet, and I understand it just fine. Since they are "representing" the people of the great state of Georgia, how are we not to view them all as morons. I mean if you vote for morons, you must be a moron. Yes, that goes for the fucking nation too. I can see why others laugh at us.

[Dancing With Diaghilev]

So if they are the law makers and decision makers, they were voted in BY THE PEOPLE

They were voted in by people (as opposed to "the people"), but the electoral system isn't quite so simple. First off, the system favors two parties, hence making any alternatives unattractive due to the unlikelihood of success. Thus, you get a system where everyone has to appeal to 50% of potential voters and you get two parties who think the way of doing that is to take only perceived "popular stances".

That leads us to problem number two: the television media. It's rather unfortunate, but public opinion is guided by the television media more than any other source. Why this is so sad is because the television media oversimplifies everything. Over the years, politicians have figured this out. They've figured out the media doesn't reward them with complex and comprehensive policy positions. It's easier to be "pro-choice" and "pro-gun" and "pro-war" and "anti-terror" and all that jazz. So you have legislators constantly on guard of being painted with a bad catchphrase. After all, who wants to be "pro-gential mutilation"?

I'm not saying there's an easy solution to this problem, but at least in a multi-party state, there would be alternative sources of information since a party could have an incentive to challenge this simplistic nature of the beast and actually be rewarded for doing so, but that's just not going to happen in the duopoly. You're going to get media-centric legislators who are cowards in the current system unless people stand up to them and people are mostly complacent and unwilling to (and as shown by this election - where people are so worried that one party will win - they are willing to vote for the other completely incompetent party).

And since you said that they were "unable to comprehend the legalities of the bills they vote on.' Would that also make them idiotic.

Only if 99% of society is "idiotic" as well. Have you read the actual text of the bill? Did you do so before reading an article or post about the ramifications? Do you routinely read bills and immediately spot every negative consequence in them?

It's not real easy, believe it or not. It's actually quite difficult. Language is a funny creature. Words mean different things to different people. It takes someone who has a good understanding of law to understand a bill and honestly, most people don't have this. Course that doesn't mean we should elect those people, but have you ever seen a campaign focus on one's bill comprehension credentials?

I mean I don't have a degree, hell I haven't even graduated yet, and I understand it just fine.

Have you seen the actual bill or are you just saying that?

Here's the original version of it:

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2003_04/versions/sb418_LC_29_1348S_hs_8.htm

The only difference between this and the amended version is the word "pierces" is in Section 2(a)(1) and "piercing" in Sections 2(a)(2-3) in the amended form. Note, that only one section fails to mention minors and this is the section that would make genital piercing illegal. So basically, one word radically altered this bill. Read the original bill, and then read it with the word "pierces". Do you think someone who wasn't really onguard would notice this?

Since they are "representing" the people of the great state of Georgia, how are we not to view them all as morons.

If you want to view them as "morons", go right ahead, but under the same definition, you are probably a "moron," as well. And so are most of the people in this forum. I doubt there's many people here who even know what a bill looks like. Much less understand and comprehend legalese when presented in a long document (this bill happens to be one of the shorter bills around).

Btw, here was the docket for both the House and Senate for the week:

http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2003_04/calendars04/hg30.htm

How do you think that the non-inclusion of one little phrase (making it relate only to minors) or the inclusion of one extra word that radically altered the bill might have slipped by some people?

That's not to say the article on Bill Heath is not true. It might be perfectly correct that he wanted to do this, but I don't think it necessarily follows that everyone else in the House actually supported it or was an idiot.

I mean if you vote for morons, you must be a moron. Yes, that goes for the fucking nation too. I can see why others laugh at us.

I can see why others laugh at us, as well. I can't just don't agree that most Georgians are so backwards as to support this measure. It's an extremist measure that slipped by a good deal of the legislature's attention.

Now, if you wanted to call the people who voted to ban gays from Rhea County "idiots", I think you'd have a point. There was no misunderstanding or complex legalese or any matters present there. But in this case, I think it's unfair.

[Coor]

but the electoral system isn't quite so simple. First off, the system favors two parties, hence making any alternatives unattractive due to the unlikelihood of success. Thus, you get a system where everyone has to appeal to 50% of potential voters and you get two parties who think the way of doing that is to take only perceived "popular stances".

The electorial college is used in PRESDIENTIAL voting. That system is based on people that are voted in state elections. Thus, they should be voting( the reason for the 2000 issue) based on the popualr vote of their state. I was unaware that the whole senate, and that the state Senate ( who passed this law, because it was a state, not national law). However, I could be wrong, I don't have a government book next to me. Also are you telling me that there are NO independent local and state repersentives? i beg to differ on that, and I believe you know that your statement was semi-bias.

After all, who wants to be "pro-gential mutilation"?

This is called educating yourself. If you let a 30 second commericial dictate how you vote, chances are you shouldn't be voting. However, every moron has a right to vote. That's the way our country is built. If you don't like it, emmigrate.

[/quote] Do you routinely read bills and immediately spot every negative consequence in them?

Actually yes. i try to read the Congressional Record whenever I can get ahold of one. In case you don't know, that's the litteral record of what is said, and the enitre bill per congressional session. As a citizen of this country, I inform myself, that is my duty. Tht is actually in the Federalist papers. If i was gonna take advise from a politican it would be those guys.

Course that doesn't mean we should elect those people, but have you ever seen a campaign focus on one's bill comprehension credentials?

No, but it should be. If I'm gonna vote, I'm gonna know both sides of who the hell I'm voting for. You can't expect people to tell you how they fuck up. It all leads back to INFORM yourself.

Here's a version of it, but I'm not sure if it is the official version of it passed by the House:

Again, this is a STATE not FEDERAL issue. They are TOTALLY differant. Sometimes, I feel as if I am the only person who didn't sleep through governemnt.

can see why others laugh at us, as well. I can't just don't agree that most Georgians are so backwards as to support this measure. It's an extremist measure that slipped by a good deal of the legislature's attention.

Again, when you vote in FUNDAMENTALISTS they are going to make FUNDAMENTALIST laws. I have yet to see the point you were trying to make for me. If you don't agree with things. Call, write, visit, and annoy the shit outta your repersenatives. I bet most people don't even know what district Knoxville area is. I live in the 2nd District. Do you know who your state reps. are? not in Washington, well hell even the ones in Washington? How about State senators, or State reps, that make OUR laws in Nashville? Very few people know. Which all leads back to my origional point. INFORM YOURSELVES of WHO you are voting for and ALL of their VIWES and POLICIES, that you can get info on. And please don't be bias when doing so, it's like not being informed at all.