"Concerning Lady Ivanna's" post temporarily moved.

[Celestial Dung]

I felt the word play was a bit too obvious concerning accusations of a person. Bone mentioned legal issues in the " VERY IMPORTANT: all KG females, please read!!!" thread. For this reason I have removed the thread from the General forum

the thread has been moved in wait of the other moderators inspection of it.

[pryjmaty]

Yes!!!!!!! I made definate accusations against him! He threatened to torture and kill me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I DO NOT want this to happen to anyone else!!
:x :x :x :x

[JaNell]

DV has copies of some of those threatening emails, right?

[The Stormstress]

I believe that if we have that sort o' predator n our midst, that it is very important 2 warn others!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vertigo25]

See... the thing is, making accusations in a public forum, even if those accusations are 100% true, opens both the original poster and the forum mods up to all kinds of legal issues. note.. even if it is absolutely, positively, 100% true.

Example:

JaNell is a ho. Now. We all know this is true, however, if she wanted to sue me for defamation, she could

And remember this, always. Anyone can sue anyone else for any reason whatsoever. They may not win, but often, that is not the case. If someone were to sue the host or mods of this board, it would ruin them, even if KG won the case. Legal costs can be a serious pain in the ass.

Whereas I think that a warning needs to put out, it would probably be better to do so at the social gatherings.

[celticsmith]

JaNell is a ho. .

She is a garden tool?

[The Stormstress]

[quote="vertigo25"]See... the thing is, making accusations in a public forum, even if those accusations are 100% true, opens both the original poster and the forum mods up to all kinds of legal issues. note.. even if it is absolutely, positively, 100% true.

Once again, law overpowers reason!

[iblis]

See... the thing is, making accusations in a public forum, even if those accusations are 100% true, opens both the original poster and the forum mods up to all kinds of legal issues. note.. even if it is absolutely, positively, 100% true.

Once again, law overpowers reason!

it's completely reasonable. while it does suck in this situation, it also stops people from spreading false information about you in a similar fashion.

sometimes these laws of ours are double edged swords, but they're kind of handy at times, too.

[mafiaman]

The Law does not protect us as well as you'd like it to, Ibbie.

So far in Knoxville, depending on who you ask, I've been a drug dealer (I wish), a narc for the cops, a cop, a crack addict, a homewrecker, a rapist, and a child molestor. Oh yeah, I've also been into beastiality and necrophilia, can't forget those two. Some other amusing stories include the one where I got fired from my job, that I was a complete lush, that I was having affairs with no less than seven other board members simultaneously (If only my sex life was that good....), that I screw women and then dump them in favor of my cats, that I have a mail order Russian bride on the way, that I randomly beat people up to near death for fun (Its not as much fun as it is a duty), the one where I'm stalking someone, and the one where I decided to convert and become a Baptist.

If only my life were as interesting as these stories, I wouldn't have to write or play RPGs for escapism.

With everything, you must consider the source. So far, those who know me have gone ahead and told me these viscious rumors because they thought they were funny (because they are so out of character for me) or that I could sue someone based upon them (because the rat bastard who started them deserved it). Its harder to sue someone for libel or defamation of character than you think.

This board must protect its existence.
This board must also serve its members.
There is going to be a fine line walked between these two. Because like Niven's Law states, "Freedom + Security = A Constant". You can be either totally free or completely secure, anything else is going to be a compromise. With any compromise, you cannot spread the good around to all in fairness. You can only spread the injustice of a situation around to all of the members in fairness or else someone will be holding the shitty end of the stick.

Now, it is possible to wrap this board in sufficient legal boilerplate to protect it from getting sued. You just have to find a lawyer who is savvy enough to write the statement for you. I believe there is one who comes into 11th Street Coffee on occassion who would fit the bill nicely for that job.

So now the question is, how do we warn people of predators? If the warning is determined to be defaming, then how do we resolve this defamation as adults?

[Nexxus23]

Actually, I think as long as the original post is left with a full description and age, removing a full name, you're all OK. Or description and first name.
Obviously something needs to be done about this person, if they're frickin' loony-toons.

Yes! I made definate accusations against him! He threatened to torture and kill me! I DO NOT want this to happen to anyone else!!

Oh jebus... *hugs* Have you called the cops?

[celticsmith]

The Law does not protect us as well as you'd like it to, Ibbie.

So far in Knoxville, depending on who you ask, ...

.... that I was a complete lush.....

.....then dump them in favor of my cats.......


.....that I have a mail order Russian bride on the way....

OK, thus far in order...

You could never be a COMPLETE lush.
You are just not that lushious.

You told ME that the cat thing was in regards to men....not women.


She is actually Japanese.....why would an anime fan settle for anything less?

Wow this is fun. Rumors only get better with age anyway.

Just like SMELLY CHEESES!!!!!

[Celestial Dung]

If it hasn't been done already this person should be reported to the police with as many witnesses going along as possible.

And during the club nights point out the guy and say "He's done this and this stay away from him."

I don't know how easy or hard it would be to sue Knoxgothic over accusatiosn made on a public board. Until we know for certain it's probably best to keep the names off accusations.

[JaNell]

JaNell is a ho. .

She is a garden tool?

No, but appareantly Vert is a tool, or at least, a bit of a rake...

[pryjmaty]

The guy's name was removed from the thread. I understand why that was done. I wasn't thinking when I originally made the post.

As to the police, since the threat was made by phone, they said that nothing could be done over one phone call. He would have to call more often so that they could set up a taping and tracking device. The guy has never called again(that might have had something to do with what Doc said to him when Doc grabbed the phone from me ).

I understand that KG has to protect itself legally, but(as mafiaman said) where do we draw the line on protecting our members too? The person, at first, appears quite harmless & "normal". It scares me to death that one of our females might hook up with him and get hurt or killed because he seemed to be fine.

[white_darkness]

The person, at first, appears quite harmless & "normal". It scares me to death that one of our females might hook up with him and get hurt or killed because he seemed to be fine.

This reminds me of something I spent 6 months doing, dragging a friend out of a relationship with a psycho. I managed to help her get enough backbone to dump the guy. total looney but very charming...and kinda cute.

On the other issue, I don't see any problems on a level as long as it's not too blatantly obvious who it is (ie. name), a description while fitting someone well, can also fit other people.

After all, taking me, there are plenty of other skinny, blonde, left-handed, youngish looking boys out there. (approx. 40, last count who are dead ringers for me).

[iblis]

The Law does not protect us as well as you'd like it to, Ibbie.

oh, i have no doubts that it barely protects us at all. i was simply arguing that there is real reason behind it.

there's a law against murder, too. but ask anyone who's taken a bullet in the head about how well that law protected them.

So far in Knoxville, depending on who you ask, I've been a drug dealer (I wish), a narc for the cops, a cop, a crack addict, a homewrecker, a rapist, and a child molestor. Oh yeah, I've also been into beastiality and necrophilia, can't forget those two. Some other amusing stories include the one where I got fired from my job, that I was a complete lush, that I was having affairs with no less than seven other board members simultaneously (If only my sex life was that good....), that I screw women and then dump them in favor of my cats, that I have a mail order Russian bride on the way, that I randomly beat people up to near death for fun (Its not as much fun as it is a duty), the one where I'm stalking someone, and the one where I decided to convert and become a Baptist.

you're becoming a baptist?! say it ain't so!

If only my life were as interesting as these stories, I wouldn't have to write or play RPGs for escapism.

With everything, you must consider the source. So far, those who know me have gone ahead and told me these viscious rumors because they thought they were funny (because they are so out of character for me) or that I could sue someone based upon them (because the rat bastard who started them deserved it). Its harder to sue someone for libel or defamation of character than you think.

maybe you should incorporate and trademark yourself. companies seem to have an easier time suing over things like this, claiming "dilution of trademark" and other such drivel.

you know, i was typing this as a joke, but i wonder now if that's possible...

This board must protect its existence.
This board must also serve its members.
There is going to be a fine line walked between these two. Because like Niven's Law states, "Freedom + Security = A Constant". You can be either totally free or completely secure, anything else is going to be a compromise. With any compromise, you cannot spread the good around to all in fairness. You can only spread the injustice of a situation around to all of the members in fairness or else someone will be holding the shitty end of the stick.

i think the powers that be have done a good job of this, so far.

Now, it is possible to wrap this board in sufficient legal boilerplate to protect it from getting sued. You just have to find a lawyer who is savvy enough to write the statement for you. I believe there is one who comes into 11th Street Coffee on occassion who would fit the bill nicely for that job.

disclaimers are a good thing. i was wondering why KG didn't have one, already.

So now the question is, how do we warn people of predators? If the warning is determined to be defaming, then how do we resolve this defamation as adults?

if you see a predator, punch them in the throat. then all we have to do is watch for people holding their throats, and gasping for air.

well, it works in theory.

[JaNell]

<snip>

Its harder to sue someone for libel or defamation of character than you think.

<snip>

So, how is that defamation of character lawsuit against Mr. McMillan coming?

[celticsmith]

So now the question is, how do we warn people of predators? If the warning is determined to be defaming, then how do we resolve this defamation as adults?

This is the sticky wicket that we are really up against. One should also be aware of the possiblility of one who would use that system to defame as well.

Now, firstly, Let me say that I do not think for a minute that Lady Ivanna would be raising the issue out of malice, nor fear for her own safety, but out of concern for others more vulnerable than she. This is because I know her personally.

However I might find her post suspect if it was done by a person that I did not know.

If it had been posted by "Mokubu Chia Pet" whom I have never actually met in person, I would be suspicious. I have a low opinion of the majority of humanity. "I like persons, but hate people" as someone recently posted in a rather simple yet elegant way.

The measure of a person, in my mind, is made through their actions, not their words. People can say anything. Say you are a Vampire all you wish, until I see you bite someone with those fangs and suck them dry....at least a little bit......then you aren't.

Which brings us back to the predator....

By my own words, unless I see the predator "pred", he may very well not be one.......BUT......That doesn't mean for one moment that I shouldn't at least pay attention for signs.

Trust , in even measure, but verify those that you feel reasonably trustworthy.

Try not to prejudge without evidence, surely, if you can manage it.

Yet, also be wary and alert lest you miss the evidence under your nose.




OK, given all that crap above, with the given name removed, the description generalized (i.e Blonde hair is general...blue hair is not...DUH!) and the actions of the person described. The warning is non-specific enough that it COULD be anyone matching that general description. However, the series of events and actions described would cause the (up to that point) anonymous person to reveal themselves thought their own chosen actions.

Conversely, IF the whole thing is a missunderstanding, the person in question will be aware of exactly whom is being spoken of. Now the person at that point can take several avenues to address the issue.

Including but not limited to:

1. Post an answer on the board denying all....etc.
This course is reserved for only the phenomenally stupid, I should point out.

2. Attempt to communicate directly with the other in an attempt to resolve the misunderstanding.
In a matter such as this, I suspect a neutral third party referee trusted by both sides would be........wiser.

3. Run and hide.....stupid if you are innocent, smart if you are guilty. For people will be warned and watching and waiting....



I am certain there are many flaws in this that I have missed, and not for one moment do I think that I am "Wise Old Pirate". I'm not all that old and I can be dumber than a day old duck. I am just expressing a serious opinion to balance out my earlier levity.


Can't have people thinking I have nothing but fluff between my ears, no matter how much the truth may be self apparent.

[Darkintent]

Here, Here. Eloquently put... I was thinking of responding to this, but our resident pirate put it far better than I could have... But I agree completely, regardless of "drama" we are a sor of family and need to watch out for each other whenever we can... I do understand the points of the moderators, but I agree with the original post (less actual names, of course).

[darkvader]

Now, it is possible to wrap this board in sufficient legal boilerplate to protect it from getting sued. You just have to find a lawyer who is savvy enough to write the statement for you. I believe there is one who comes into 11th Street Coffee on occassion who would fit the bill nicely for that job.

disclaimers are a good thing. i was wondering why KG didn't have one, already.

We do have one. You agreed to it when you signed up for the forum. It's probably even legal, and would probably be a valid defense if we are sued.

That doesn't mean we want to be sued, and sorry MM, there's no lawyer anywhere who can keep us from being sued. They might be able to help us be pretty damn sure we win if we are, but if somebody really wants to sue us, they will.