taken from mtv news-

08.31.2004 2:09 PM EDT

A dozen students at Wilbur Middle School in Wichita, Kansas, were threatened with suspension for dressing in black clothing, dying their hair, and wearing black lipstick or eye shadow after the school's principal cracked down on the "Goth" look last week.

"There's always been a policy in our dress code against gang or group-related clothing," Principal Cherie Crain said. "Because there's power in numbers. When a group looks alike, they terrorize other kids or intimidate them. Sixth graders in particular were very intimidated by the cultist look. "

Wilbur's dress code forbids students from wearing clothing that "create[s] a 'gang' or clique appearance," as well as accessories like "nose, eyebrow, lip or tongue rings, chains, dog collars, safety pins [and] studded clothing." According to the dress code, these items are all banned because "they disrupt the school environment or impede learning in the classroom."

"Last week, a parent told me her two kids were talking about this at dinner," Crain said. "And one of them said 'I'm so glad Ms. Crain did this, because a Goth sat behind me last year and every single day he'd hiss at me like a snake.' And that impeded his learning."

According to Crain, in previous school sessions, "no more than three students" wore Gothic-inspired clothing. But when the school year began last week, she noticed a group of 10 to 12 students dressed in black, wearing lipstick and makeup. She immediately called the students into her office to let them know their look violated the school's dress code.

Thus far, the students have complied.

"I'll send students home until they want to come back to school dressed in clothes that do not violate the dress code," Crain said. "That's not the wholesome look that's conducive to students performing to excellence. I've got 1,050 kids here, and basically it's a clean-cut, good-looking group."

Crain said she doesn't have a problem with students wearing black — after all, Wilbur Middle School's colors are red and black. But when black clothing is combined with dyed hair, make-up and painted nails, it becomes a concern.

"The problem is when kids go whole-hog with the look, then it takes on a sort of dark-side symbolism," she said. "And it upsets parents, it upsets kids and it upsets teachers. This is a place to go to school, and to be a kid. And I don't want kids being afraid or nervous. It's a wholesome environment."

This just sucks... Yet another example of why I dislike public schools. They try to beat the individuality and creativity out of their students. And we wonder why the US schools have been falling behind in the world. We are more worried about what the kids are wearing and wether or not they can pray in class, than teaching them things they will need in life.

I feel I must both agree and disagree with you, dear. To begin with, stating that they are cracking down on "goths", or any stereotype, is not cool. But, personally, I believe that anyone who wants to express themselves through their clothing can find a way to do so while respecting the schools wishes, the problem is often getting the school to respect the students as well. The other question I have is... were these kids really expressing individuality, or following the new trend of being into dark and spooky things? When there is a noticible increase in a style, I tend to thing that it is a trend more than a form of expression.

"There's always been a policy in our dress code against gang or group-related clothing," Principal Cherie Crain said. "Because there's power in numbers. When a group looks alike, they terrorize other kids or intimidate them.

see I love this section of the article. Cause to me this should ban cheerleader uniforms and athletic uniforms cause those are group-related clothing. and from my experiences being the tormented one growing up it was the cheerleaders and the athletes that did the tormenting. I hate the way schools are run. I used to be against uniforms in school but maybe they need them so people will stop singling out goths and punks and whatnot. cause I bet if the popular kids in school, the kids from really rich families, were to wear chains on their wallets and studded belts no one would say a word.

"Last week, a parent told me her two kids were talking about this at dinner," Crain said. "And one of them said 'I'm so glad Ms. Crain did this, because a Goth sat behind me last year and every single day he'd hiss at me like a snake.' And that impeded his learning."


I always Knew Cartman was based off a real kid



What fun would it be to be a goth if you weren't being opressed. The more people try to shut me down the better I feel

Fucking retards.

satanskitten wrote:

"There's always been a policy in our dress code against gang or group-related clothing," Principal Cherie Crain said. "Because there's power in numbers. When a group looks alike, they terrorize other kids or intimidate them.

see I love this section of the article. Cause to me this should ban cheerleader uniforms and athletic uniforms cause those are group-related clothing. and from my experiences being the tormented one growing up it was the cheerleaders and the athletes that did the tormenting. I hate the way schools are run. I used to be against uniforms in school but maybe they need them so people will stop singling out goths and punks and whatnot. cause I bet if the popular kids in school, the kids from really rich families, were to wear chains on their wallets and studded belts no one would say a word.

That was my very first thought as I was reading that. I was never picked on by any of the other alternative types but I was damn sure picked on by the preppies and rednecks. Especially in middle school. If that's the way they think, maybe they should even go a step further and ban Abwhorecrummy & Bitch clothing since it offends me and makes me wanna PUKE! Sorry, I know this isn't the most mature sounding rebuttal but it just aggravates me.

"This just sucks... Yet another example of why I dislike public schools. "

This type of oppression isn't limited to public schools, or even schools in general. You just never get away from it. Pack mentality is ingrained in most people. They encourage their own pack and discourage the others. Here, we have several packs: the parent pack, the school administration pack (i.e. the principle, school board, and teachers who want to look good professionally) the goth pack, the various other student packs. The goth pack just got singled out by the others. "Toe the line and abide by our rules. Our pack is in control." Don't think for a second the Goth kids wouldn't do the same if given the chance (the ones following the trend, of course...) Lord of the Flies?

I just never got this whole mentality. This made me miserable in highschool, of course.

*blink* Stupid people make me sad

What are they supposed to do? Go buy a whole new wardrobe just for school? Will the school be paying for this? Most likely not. Which makes the whole thing suck MORE.

And why do clothes matter anyway? My collar isn't hurting anyone. I guess in theory I could beat someone with a chain...but I could also stab them with a pencil and give them lead poisoning. Or cut them with paper. Etc etc...

Schools suck...but its not because of the school...its the people IN the school. I've never been messed with be athletes simply because the coach has this policy that if they give anyone trouble they come tell him and he gives them HELL. Everyone else though sees me as fair game

I know it probably won't make an ounce of different but I plan on e-mailing the principal of the school...not that she'll care but I want the opinion heard that this should apply to all groups (including jock/cheerleader) if it's going to apply to those. http://www.usd259.com/middle/wilbur.html

Ok maybe im just differant but instead of looking at the school officals and other groups in the school.Lets look at the "goths" in question.One of the kids was said to have hissed at another schoolmate and they also bullied 6 graders.When me and x were in high school we wore black and were what you would call differant but instead of being picked on most of the time the preps and reds embraced us.Maybe its cause they thought it was cool that we were wrestling on the weekends i dunno.Fact is we never had a problem cause we didnt cause any problems.Seems to me that these kids were acting like jackasses and now are having to pay.Thats just to bad i guess

judas gnb wrote:Ok maybe im just differant but instead of looking at the school officals and other groups in the school.Lets look at the "goths" in question.One of the kids was said to have hissed at another schoolmate and they also bullied 6 graders.When me and x were in high school we wore black and were what you would call differant but instead of being picked on most of the time the preps and reds embraced us.Maybe its cause they thought it was cool that we were wrestling on the weekends i dunno.Fact is we never had a problem cause we didnt cause any problems.Seems to me that these kids were acting like jackasses and now are having to pay.Thats just to bad i guess

That is a good point...but clothes have nothing to do with it. I can dress however I want and I wouldn't act any different. If they are really tormenting other students, then yes...they should be punished. But why completely ban the Goth fashion? I'm sure that not everyone that goes through that school with a collar on is going to be a complete ass. Its like how they banned all coats that go past finger-tip length because of a few idiots that hid guns in their tench coats. Why make everyone suffer from it?

IT'S CRAZY MIXED UP WORLD. But I guess some just want us all the same. I thought this is America, land of the free.

I think they banned it all cause school is not a fashion show you go there to learn.I mean they said black wasnt a banned color so why not just wear a black shirt and jeans.Clothes shouldnt make who you are anyway.If you gotta wear chains and spikes during the day your hiding behind it.

Another source of what happaned

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 181.htm?1c

Now this little quote threw me for a loop.

"Debbie McKenna, who supervises the district's safe and drug-free schools programs, said wearing Goth clothing can be a warning sign of other problems. Teachers are trained to check if students who wear such clothes have withdrawn from other students and if they're using drugs."

Dress codes in school have bothered me for a while, if a school is to teach you then what is this teaching the students? That in order to make do in the world you have to conform? Not only is this a immoral lesson it's also a erroneous one. In order to succeed in this worth you have to break out of conformity. Only those who can break away the the mind set of their peers ever make something of themselves.

It's a good as a time as any to define what I mean by "make something of yourself" I mean doing something that dramatically changes the enviroment you live in. Something that reaches beyond School, work, marriage, and death. S/he who makes the loudest noise in life wins.

As for the rest of the kids who are comfortable with conformity, well what lesson does this teach them? That anyone who is different from you is a mennace and that rules need to be set to stop them from being so different? I reason that in the future this children of conformity may, as adults, attempt to dissrupt or stop any form of activity that goes against their system of aesthetics and morals. Or wose this action could help raise a community of paranoids where ever type of diviation from the norm is seen as a threat.

It's a huge wonderful world of diversity both in society and in nature. Children should be taught that.

I know some of you might think it's foolish of me to go this far but this really bothers me so I did send that e-mail to the principal.

Here is what the e-mail said (copied word for word from the e-mail):

Good afternoon! I am writing in response to a news article I happened across today concerning a ban on "Goth" style clothing at your school. I'm not a citizen of your county or city so this may fall on deaf ears but I wanted to speak my mind. My first reaction regarding this article was anger. When I was in middle school, it was always the "alternative" looking children who were picked on by the cheerleaders and football players. I can remember countless times when I personally was subjected to horrible mistreatment because my Mother was a single, working mom and couldn't afford the "brand name" clothing that you needed to have in order to be accepted by the "popular" crowd. It was usually the football players who would do this. It was an almost daily fear of worrying what they might do next. While I don't agree with the banning of "Goth" style clothing or wear, I feel that if this is something that you are intent on doing, that you should also ban wearing school football or cheerleader uniforms during the school day. I could even go a step further and suggest banning the wear of any clothing that might suggest a group of people but that's impossible. You can't ban the wearing of Abercrombie & Fitch clothing even though it's much more often the case that someone who is wearing clothing from that store is going to be disrespectful to any number of people. It really isn't very different than banning "Goth" style clothing. Abercrombie & Fitch (and brands like it) generally lend the label of "Prep" and I'm certain you have more than 11 people in your school who wear clothing of that sort. I will quote what you said in the article "When a group looks alike, they terrorize other kids or intimidate them." So, by your own definition, having numerous individuals dressing in Abercrombie & Fitch can seem intimidating and by my own personal experience from back in the very tumultuous middle school years, they can definitely be terrorizing. It's been about 12 - 15 years since I've been out of middle school but I can still remember how hard it was and how crucial that time was for me and who I turned out to be. During these years, these children are beginning to find their own identities and not everyone is going to fit into what you might specify as "clean-cut", no matter how much you might like for that to be. You have to nurture the creativity in children and this is part of that creativity. Some of the greatest minds in history were part of branched out sub-cultures or outcast by many of their peers and they grew and learned to think outside of the box because of it. I ask you to think this through thoroughly and that if you continue this ban, to expand it to apply to football uniforms and cheerleader uniforms. I'm not aware of your dress code so this might be something you already have in effect and if so, bravo!

Very nicely written, will you let us know if you get a reply?

pink_spider11 wrote:Very nicely written, will you let us know if you get a reply?

Of course, though I am very doubtful that she will take the time to reply. If she surprises me and does reply, I'll definitely pass it along.

I think I'll goatse her inbox. Then I'll include a pic of my photo ID, in which I look uber trendy.

Yeah. That sounds like fun.

Let me state that i personally believe that you can express yourself without wearing the goth uniform. It comes out in the way you write, speak, draw, sing, act, and exprees your emotions.Also, I think that the schools need to do a little resurch on the subject of goth. Most of them take the occult route but if you just go on line and look for it or go to a goth dance night you will see that they are just like everyone else only they are into some obscure and just plain wierd ideas and music, much like the hippys that the teachers used to be before they sold out to the man. Peace my ass.

Mercurygriffin wrote:Let me state that i personally believe that you can express yourself without wearing the goth uniform. It comes out in the way you write, speak, draw, sing, act, and exprees your emotions.Also, I think that the schools need to do a little resurch on the subject of goth. Most of them take the occult route but if you just go on line and look for it or go to a goth dance night you will see that they are just like everyone else only they are into some obscure and just plain wierd ideas and music, much like the hippys that the teachers used to be before they sold out to the man. Peace my ass.

Oh, I agree. I wasn't saying that was the only way they could express themselves, just trying to make a point to this lame brain principal.