Wichita Middle School Cracks Down On Goths

Snap Dragon · Post by **Snap Dragon** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:48 pm

Gosh!!! And I thought my school was bad...That's all stereotypical or somethin'??? It's like they're saying, "It's ok to wear black, sure! You just can't wear it with accessories....Oh, and I'll send you home if I see 10 people at a time doing it. You could be in a cult for all I know?"
Come on! That's like if they cracked down on all the 200 people in my school for wearing Abercrombie everyday...or the poor kids for wearing the same out fit everyday.....Jeez! You don't ever hear them saying That makes me mad.... :mad:

Cryso lueth Wylthen · Post by **Cryso lueth Wylthen** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:55 pm

And yet another reason I hate people in general.

You know I have to cut my hair, which took me over a year to grow out, and wear clothing I don't like just to get a job? In my honest opinion, I hate the south. Merely because I can't be me if I want to survive.

But then again, the north is only narrowly better in the aspect of acceptance, the world would be so much better if it didn't exist at all.
Damn the blasted narrowminded fools, and damn their foolish ways to make the world serve them. I will wear what I wear, and I will be as I will be. It needn't concern them, nor is it of any conciquence to them.

But then again, I'd much rather blame ignorance for their wrongdoings, as ignorance, and will to be ignorant causes such foolish behavior from those in power.

Oh well. That's life for you.

Post by **Bone** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:34 am

Wow lotta responses to this post!!!!

I was angered at the thought of this principle targeting a group that she didn't like. It REALLY caught my interest in the fact it was "GOTHS" that were targeted. In that I thought it might interest some of you

However, it's not a "Goth or Not" issue

it's an issue of kids who are expressing part of themselves (be because it's cool or not) being percicuted because of something that someone in power didn't like. Yes, some of you can say... "learn it, thats life". However this America, where we are suppose to believe that we have the constitution which guarentees things"freedom of speech".
The very thing that is suppose to make our country great. The Ideals that many of our military friends are willing to risk their very lives to protect.

If left to stand what this teaches these children is that the Constitution means nothing, and can be stepped on by the "powers that be".

Now, think about what Hitler did to Germany...
This kind of mentality opens a door to a similar kind of dictator here in America...

"It could never happen here" I can hear some of you saying right now.
But no-one thought the holocaust could ever happened in as civilized a country as Germany. But the people let it happen...

I have more I could rant on but this is to me the most importent issueimportantDons his Flame retardant suit for the pending onslot*

amazongoddess · Post by **amazongoddess** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:11 pm

Though I find your choices of examples a little extreme, I do agree that the issue isn't "goth or not." The issue is about having the freedom to express themselves anyway they see fit, as long as it doesn't harm someone else. I don't think it's the school's place to be deciding what these kids can and can't wear. What do they think the parents are for? If I had a child and they were trying to wear something to school that I didn't see as appropriate, I certainly wouldn't leave it up to the teachers and principal to fix it. I'd be the one yanking them back in the house and telling them to change clothes.

If these kids' parents don't mind it, then who are they to say anything? These people are truly oblivious and simply looking for something to be critical of.

X · Post by X » Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:50 pm

Quite honestly, if anyone had any balls about it, and wanted to do anything other than bitch, the age old statement of "suspend me and i'll sue" should be said. The guidelines (as far as i have read, and understand) are alot like the ones we had at Mcminn, the first year the dress code was somewhat strict. They're so open and attackable its not even funny.

Of course some people like having oppression...cus it gives them something to bitch about.

Vachy · Post by **Vachy** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:53 pm

Bone wrote:Yes, some of you can say... "learn it, thats life". However this America, where we are suppose to believe that we have the constitution which guarentees things"freedom of speech".

...and the key word is "suppose." But unfortunatly, it isn't that simple. If we were completely free and were granted our constitutional rights to the fullest extend, there wouldn't even *be* such a thing as a dress code.

Yes, America is a nice place to live, and we have more freedoms than most other countries. But sometimes well-enough just isn't. There is always room for improvement. But it takes time. So in the mean time, you gotta learn to deal with it. Enjoy what you have, and get over what you don't. Such is life...

Scorptrio · Post by **Scorptrio** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:43 pm

Something we can ALL agree on...

BearDragonLady wrote:and Jen, you look fabulous regardless of what you're wearing

A few days ago I was at a clients' working on their computer. The wife approached me and said that I looked nice and clean cut today because I was wearing a white computer-logo t-shirt. She said I looked horrible when I wore all black, that I was frightening, that one of the desk clerks was convinced I was a Satanist and "dreaded with trepidation" every time I was coming to work on the computers. She even asked her husband, a devout Baptist, "Why did you hire that Satanist?!" Imagine her surprise and relief when I explained to her that part of the reason I wear all black was my years in seminary, where all the clergy wear black all the time, as is the habit of orthodox clergy. It took a little conversation to get her to calm down about it all, and she still goes on about how I shouldn't wear black because it "scares people." The problem here is people's fear, suspicion and prejudice. I can imagine a Priest wearing traditional garb, without the collar, being accused of being a Satanist by them because he was wearing all black. People assume things based on their preconceived notions, without bothering to find out the truth of the matter. Our own delusions are always easier to accept than reality. This is what makes control by religion, society and government so easy. When we're freed of the responsibility of making informed decisions, letting a church, school or other entity think for us becomes the norm.

Vachy · Post by **Vachy** » Mon Sep 06, 2004 9:17 pm

Today at work a customer noticed my nails painted black and asked me if I was "into that goth stuff and all...or satanic?" When I said no, they proceded to make jokes about me practicing satanic rituals in the dishroom. :roll:

It always surprises me when "goth" things scare, shock, or confuse people. I assume that most people are desensitized or educated enough to know that I am a normal person. But I'm not offended, just surprised.

QueenOfTheFlock · Post by **QueenOfTheFlock** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:40 am

Vachy wrote:Yes, America is a nice place to live, and we have more freedoms than most other countries. But sometimes well-enough just isn't. There is always room for improvement. But it takes time. So in the mean time, you gotta learn to deal with it. Enjoy what you have, and get over what you don't. Such is life...

I find your statement quite contradictory...you say there is room for improvement but we have to learn to deal with it. If there's room for improvement, you won't get it that improvement by just dealing with things the way they are. You have to speak up and ruffle a few tail feathers (which is why I e-mailed the principal, and FYI...never heard back from her either). On a more extreme note, we didn't free ourselves from England because our ancestors just learned to "deal with it"....they fought for what they believed in. If there is something I believe isn't right, I do plan to at least say something....even if that's all I can do.

4X541N7 · Post by **4X541N7** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:41 pm

Snap Dragon wrote:Gosh!!! And I thought my school was bad...That's all stereotypical or somethin'??? It's like they're saying, "It's ok to wear black, sure! You just can't wear it with accessories....Oh, and I'll send you home if I see 10 people at a time doing it. You could be in a cult for all I know?"
Come on! That's like if they cracked down on all the 200 people in my school for wearing Abercrombie everyday...or the poor kids for wearing the same out fit everyday.....Jeez! You don't ever hear them saying That makes me mad....

Ok, I think this is where I agree most. I understand that things like this do create a distraction, especially the case of the kid hissing like a snake...(which I don't put about the stupid I-wanna-be-scary-because-I-have-nothingelse-to-contribute-to-sociaty "Goths"). But to ban a style is a bit ridiculous. What about the Football players that are DEMANDED to where their Jerseys on game days? What about DECA, who are erged to where their DECA appearal on certain days? Do these not constitute as "numbers" or "Clique"? Intimidation my ass. Suspend the students that cause a distraction, leave the rest to make up the better part of you school districts ACT averages!!!

Vachy · Post by **Vachy** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:33 pm

QueenOfTheFlock wrote:I find your statement quite contradictory...you say there is room for improvement but we have to learn to deal with it. If there's room for improvement, you won't get it that improvement by just dealing with things the way they are.

Because improvement takes time. That's why I said "So in the mean time, you gotta learn to deal with it." I think you must simultaniously try to change things you dislike but also adjust and live in the present.

It's great that you stood up for your beliefs and e-mailed that person, wether she cared or not. It had to made her think something. I just don't think a dozen middle school "goths" not being able to wear black lipstick and spike collars is all that big of a problem. That's just my opinion, though, and I still respect yours.

QueenOfTheFlock · Post by **QueenOfTheFlock** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:47 pm

Vachy wrote:
QueenOfTheFlock wrote:I find your statement quite contradictory...you say there is room for improvement but we have to learn to deal with it. If there's room for improvement, you won't get it that improvement by just dealing with things the way they are.

Because improvement takes time. That's why I said "So in the mean time, you gotta learn to deal with it." I think you must simultaniously try to change things you dislike but also adjust and live in the present.

It's great that you stood up for your beliefs and e-mailed that person, wether she cared or not. It had to made her think something. I just don't think a dozen middle school "goths" not being able to wear black lipstick and spike collars is all that big of a problem. That's just my opinion, though, and I still respect yours.

And I completely respect yours as well. Actually, it makes me all warm and fuzzy to see people passionate for their opinions.

My whole thing with this is that I just do not think it's right. I mean, if I had a whole group of people in head to toe pink, pink nails and lipstick, pink eyeliner (yes, they make it...I have it), and whatever other pink accessories you can think of, I'm almost certain they wouldn't say anything at all. They're just feeding a stereotype and using excuses to justify it. I mean, seriously....it can be nothing but an excuse she's using unless she really was going to extend the rule to cover the other people as well (like the overly mentioned football players).

Mercurygriffin · Post by **Mercurygriffin** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:29 pm

I would like to point out that opression breeds two kinds of people. Submisives and Dominants. You either give in to the will of someone or you don't. You either fight for your rights or you don't. And if you are in the lower number crowd and you can not make your voice heard you will be poked and prodded by the higher number group. So if you continue to be on the losing side you will either give up or get tougher and stand your ground until your side eventually wins. Then the only thing that has changed is the winning side. The fight will continue as long as one person is of the opposing thought and is willing to have a voice and rock the boat because getting hit does not make them fall. :twisted:

amazongoddess · Post by **amazongoddess** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:17 am

Hmmm...What's that old saying..."oppinions are like assholes and everybody's got one!"

The problem is, they don't have the knowledge to go with their oppinions. These people are so caught up in the debate of black clothes vs anything else, that they're missing the more important issues.

Ok, at least one of the "goth" kids is acting out, or so it's been said. If he's acting out, then there's another, more important problem that needs to be dealt with. What he's wearing isn't the point. They need to figure out why he feels the need to "hiss" at other students. I know that being in middle school is more or less, one big drama pit....how well I remember!!! During middle school, you're bound to have cliques. There's really no way around it, but the problem here is the cliques aren't the only thing that's putting pressure on this one group. I agree that if there are a few students causing a disturbance, then they need to be dealt with...but not by banning what they wear. These kids need to be taught how to socialize w/ people that are different from them. Would be a great time to teach a real life lesson, that they could use in the "real world." And the adults putting restrictions on them, instead of taking a look at the bigger picture, isn't gonna do a damn thing, other than piss off the students, and cause more drama in these already drama-packed lives. I hate closed minded people.
I don't know about anyone else, but when I was in middle school, and even in high school, I caught enough hell from the other students, over being different...what was termed a "freak." If these people can't find something more important to focus on, then they all need to find new jobs. Cause they're not gonna do shit for those kids, except teach them that its okay to repress someone who's different or someone you don't understand.

AAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

ok. I feel better.

The Fallen · Post by **The Fallen** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:03 pm

This reminds me a bit of Tempest Smith, a sad story, check it out sometime...

Lilith · Post by **Lilith** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:43 pm

i used to hiss alot when i was a child and i turned out ok.oh wait i still hiss.that hissing might have been an instance when the kid felt he needed to frighten the kid for protection.trust me i had to do it and i was a small little goth girl who went to karns.i remeber one time when i was riding to school on the bus (that my aunt drove)
i was always tortured and beat up by kids on that bus.one day i was minding my own business listeng to pretty hate machine when i heard everyone laughing and realised they were pointing at me.they had put gum in my hair.i don't know what came over me but i stood up and ripped the gum along with my hair,which was a huge chunk and then proceeded to throw the mess that made my head start bleeding a little at the kid closest to me and then sat back down.they never bothered me again.

Lilith · Post by **Lilith** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 3:12 pm

by the way what is the addy for that principal?i think i would like to drop her a line?

QueenOfTheFlock · Post by **QueenOfTheFlock** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:58 pm

The e-mail address I got off of the school's website is: ccrain@usd259.net

Wichita Middle School Cracks Down On Goths

ok

Yup...