local mall discrimiates against goths

If it's not covered by one of those other categories, you should probably talk about it here. Be nice.

Postby Nexxus23 » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:00 pm

ReddErin wrote:I am willing to help with whatever is needed, if you would accept it. I can make up flyers, etc. Let me know how I may assist you. Let's put differences aside and smash these mother fuckers' balls.


Amen and stuff. I used to work in West Town- got harrassed by one of the guards there on my day off when I went to pick up my paycheck... But he left me alone once I told him I worked there (at the store he stopped me in front of, no less! :roll: ).
I think maybe Simon Corp. just hires assholes.
However, I'd be happy to help bash some balls and work a picket line if it means we all get better treatment by the masses.
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Ya know

Postby EvilVegan » Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:02 pm

I ran into a similar situation just a few days ago. . .
I was taking a shower and after I got out of the shower I was drying my hair and I remembered that I needed to pick up some paintballs. Well in my haste to leave I forgot to dress, so I left with just a towel on my head and my bathrobe. When I got to the mall with my paintball gun and my camel (my car was broke down so I had to take a camel) man did people freak out! I was like damn quit discriminating against paintball players. I even got shot. By George Bush. He just drove up and shot me and left. I was like hey buddy cut that shit right out! Of course he didn't listen. . . he's a pervy hobbit fancier, no doubt about it.
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Postby Imp » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:07 am

Sir Diddimus wrote:Long ago, while in high school, some friends and I tried to video tape some scenes of some VERY stupid movies in both of our local malls.


Umm... please correct me if I'm misreading something, but it is illegal to videotape movies in a theater, whether it's in a mall or not. Asking a person trying to videotape something to leave is the polite way to deal with it. More than once I've watched closely from my projector room to see if a blinking light belongs to a camera or a cell phone. So unless I'm misunderstanding you, the request that you leave had nothing to do with your attire.
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who would cross a goth picket line?

Postby iblis » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:32 am

somebody in a very large vehicle?
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Re: Ya know

Postby iblis » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:45 am

EvilVegan wrote:I ran into a similar situation just a few days ago. . .
I was taking a shower and after I got out of the shower I was drying my hair and I remembered that I needed to pick up some paintballs. Well in my haste to leave I forgot to dress, so I left with just a towel on my head and my bathrobe. When I got to the mall with my paintball gun and my camel (my car was broke down so I had to take a camel) man did people freak out! I was like damn quit discriminating against paintball players. I even got shot. By George Bush. He just drove up and shot me and left. I was like hey buddy cut that shit right out! Of course he didn't listen. . . he's a pervy hobbit fancier, no doubt about it.

that's just so horribly wrong.

hobbits aren't meant to be fancied about.
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Postby iblis » Fri Feb 21, 2003 1:00 am

Imp wrote:Umm... please correct me if I'm misreading something, but it is illegal to videotape movies in a theater, whether it's in a mall or not. Asking a person trying to videotape something to leave is the polite way to deal with it. More than once I've watched closely from my projector room to see if a blinking light belongs to a camera or a cell phone. So unless I'm misunderstanding you, the request that you leave had nothing to do with your attire.

next, we're going to have a guy who says that, while attempting a bank robbery, he was shot at by several uniformed police officers.. but that they did it because he was wearing eye-liner.
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not cool

Postby Timelord88 » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:13 am

I hate closed minded people of all sorts.......
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Re: local mall discrimiates against goths

Postby MahoganyDawn » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:35 am

morellademone wrote:I went to knoxville center mall yesterday to shop \.


I used to work there and they did the same shit to me. Then they realized I wasn't one of the mall rats (fook you Vader) and let up on me. I was so mad one day when they pulled some friends and I into their office and searched us and made us remove all of our jewelry/overcoats.
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Postby kissmeblack » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:45 am

OOps, I posted that last one about working at the mall...just forgot to sign out of Mahogany's screenname.

So lalala sorry!
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Postby morellademone » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:54 am

I'm all about smashing some balls Erin and your help would be greatly appreciated. Oh yea I do have balls did I leave that out? Long story short back in my Pellissippii days my ex was spreading rumors and being immature so I told everyone I had a penis. I would talk and talk to people for hours about my supposed sex change surgery (waist up), hormone therapy, ect...until they believed me. Ha was he embarrassed. So yes, Connie does have a penis and testes. You heard it first. Anyway back to the subject. I e-mailed Simon, Spencers, and Metro Pulse. Zeo was interviewed back in Dec. 1998 by Metro Pulse in West Town for the way that he dressed and he was quoted as saying he had never been hastled by security. If anyone else wants to be interviewed as well let me know and we'll set a date once I hear back from them of coarse. This could and hopefully will be good press for our community and Knoxgothic could get plugged as well if it's ok with the KG. Let me know guys. I intend for there to be a positive resolution to this matter. My anger has subsided a bit, now it's time to voice my opinion and propose a solution to Knoxville Center's unfair policies publicly. I will be requesting a detailed description of their dress code and policies if they have one, so far the manager won't give me a straight answer on what exactly the dress code is.
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Postby ReddErin » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:31 am

Let's do it.
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Postby jane doe » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:36 am

Imp wrote:
Sir Diddimus wrote:Long ago, while in high school, some friends and I tried to video tape some scenes of some VERY stupid movies in both of our local malls.


Umm... please correct me if I'm misreading something, but it is illegal to videotape movies in a theater, whether it's in a mall or not. Asking a person trying to videotape something to leave is the polite way to deal with it. More than once I've watched closely from my projector room to see if a blinking light belongs to a camera or a cell phone. So unless I'm misunderstanding you, the request that you leave had nothing to do with your attire.


i think, for one, he meant they were shooting their own "homemade" movies, not movies from a screen, and for two, he was agreeing with their rights of private property and kicking whom they want out. he never said they kicked them out for what they were wearing. he was backing up someone elses statment.
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Postby pryjmaty » Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:33 am

morellademone wrote: I will be requesting a detailed description of their dress code and policies if they have one, so far the manager won't give me a straight answer on what exactly the dress code is.

I might be wrong, but my guess as to why you have not received a straight answer is they are doing their damndest to come up with something, just for you dear, other than the typical "no shoes, no shirt, no service" thing.
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that's sad

Postby shadow dancer » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:43 am

I would be very curious to hear what they provide you as a dress code and if the ink is dry yet when they give it to you. It is absolutely unnerving sometimes the way certain people think regarding our community. It only takes a handful of young, as I refer to them, "rebellious brats" to influence people's opinions of us as a whole. When I refer to the "rebellious brats", I am referring to the ones who dress and act like they do solely to rebel against mommy and daddy rather than because they actually enjoy the fashion and the environment. These are the same ones who do things like dress in black and go vandalize churches. This is in no way referring to the young ones I have met from this forum cause you all are the bomb!

Unfortunately, because the mall is privately owned, I would venture to say that they do in fact have the right to dictate dress on the property. It doesn't make it right for them to discriminate in one way or the other, but it is not much different than any of the clubs in town. Most of the ones I know around here do have some form of a dress code; however, some are and some aren't enforced. They do have the right (legally) to enforce them because they are private properties. For example, I have had a couple of friends in clubs asked to remove their spiked collars because they are viewed as a weapon. In another case I had a friend of mine asked to tuck his shirt in. Due to the shirt being a handmade sweater by his grandmother, he refused and was told to leave. The difference in these instances is that the dress code was blatantly posted. It wasn't like they were singling out anybody in particular.

I would also be very curious to see what the security does if your mother wears the collar to the mall. In that case you may have a very big issue with illegal discrimination if she is not told to remove it. Not necessarily because of the attire itself, but your age in general. You look very young, and they may have been telling you to take the collar off solely for the fact that they thought they could get away with it because of your age. I would be interesting for me to know how old the security guard was and if he had children. I get so tickled when I go out and the nastiest looks are generally from mothers. They look at their young daughters, take one look at me and then give their daughters that "If you ever dress like that, I'll kill you look." Then, I just have to laugh. It's only laughable, however, because they don't have the ability to get me thrown out of some place or tell me how to dress. Personally, I very rarely make it to the mall unless it's the cinema or I'm shopping for someone else, so I haven't really had any problems with dress there. I'm really sorry that happened to you, morellademone and zeo. Keep us updated on what progress you make on this subject.
Last edited by shadow dancer on Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby JaNell » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:44 am

ReddErin wrote:I am willing to help with whatever is needed, if you would accept it. I can make up flyers, etc. Let me know how I may assist you. Let's put differences aside and smash these mother fuckers' balls.


Count me in, too.
With camera.
And kids.
In full Goth gear, or as close as I can come to it.


Simon's Corporate Website

Local Simon Properties:

Knoxville Center - Mall
Knoxville Commons - Community Center
West Town Mall - Mall
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Who is the Simon customer?

Postby JaNell » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:55 am

From the website:

<snip>

"Simply put, Simon is the largest shopping mall owner, manager and developer in America. What does this mean?

And each shopper visit represents a very unique opportunity for you. Because they’re not just shoppers. They’re impressions.

Approximately 2 billion and growing. With 100 million unique consumers.

The Big Picture

66% coverage of US households in the top 50 markets

Approximately 2 billion shopper visits annually *

$41 billion in annual retail sales

*SPG Market Research

Simon Malls…Attracting America’s Best Shoppers…Delivering Key Demographics

Who is the Simon Customer?
Affluent consumers ($65,200 average annual income)
Robust buyers $79 average purchase
Frequent shoppers (visit mall almost weekly)
37.4 Median Age
30% of shoppers with incomes in excess of $75,000.


The Best Shoppers – Key demographics/psychographics
Female shoppers account for over half (62%) of Simon’s shopper base, and make approximately 1.4 billion visits each year.
Over half of all female shoppers recognize the Simon brand as matching or outperforming competitors on all characteristics of the ideal mall.
On average, female shoppers spend $81 per visit to Simon malls.


Attracting America’s Best Shoppers…Delivering Key Demographics
Women 25-34
Over 210 million in traffic per year
Average 4 visits per month
Professional careers, lead busy lives
Want mall experiences to enhance their images and appearances*

*SPG Market Research

Attracting America’s Best Shoppers…Delivering Key Demographics

Women 35-44, with children under age 18
Over 410 million in traffic per year
Average 3 visits per month
Shopping of any kind can be stressful, so…
Want mall experiences to generate new ideas and opportunities for their families including shopping, entertainment, education and fun*

*SPG Market Research

Attracting America’s Best Shoppers…Delivering Key Demographics
The Best Shoppers – Key demographics/psychographics

Hard-to-Reach Teenagers
Over 400 million in traffic per year
Average 4.4 visits per month
Want to meet new people and experience new things at the mall*

*Tru and Youth Intelligence 1999"
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Postby JaZilla » Fri Feb 21, 2003 11:13 am

ReddErin wrote:Let's do it.


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RAAAAAAWWWRRR
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Postby rec|use » Fri Feb 21, 2003 11:27 am

blindboy wrote: hey recluse if i remeber right were we not asked to leave the mall in chatt once cause you were wearing a manson "god of fuck" t-shirt? :p


ah yes good ole manson shirts
i think i got kicked outta highschool a few times too
and maybe even yelled at by your gradmother

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Postby littlepockit » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:31 pm

personally, i think that it isn't the mall managements fault, if the secutiry guards are the ones giving the grief. they are not employed by the mall, they work for a private security guard company, like vinson.


but, if the mall management is giving the trouble then that is a totally different matter. if you were walking around the mall naked with you body hair on fire that is one thing, but being discriminated against because of clothing, that is ridiculous. it would be like telling a person to leave because they were wearing a skirt too short for the general populus, but that doesnt happen. ive seen some pretty freaky ensembles at the various malls in the area. for example, i think this one woman thoguht she was tina turner-she was like, 60 wearing a micro mini that was gold lame. i must say it was very EWWW...


thats is all i have to say about that
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Re: local mall discrimiates against goths

Postby LittleBit » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:47 pm

I used to work there and they did the same shit to me. Then they realized I wasn't one of the mall rats (fook you Vader) and let up on me. I was so mad one day when they pulled some friends and I into their office and searched us and made us remove all of our jewelry/overcoats.


From what I know, that is illegal. Did they have a search warrant?
Did they have a police officer present? Or arrest you so the search would have been legal?

If not, they violated your civil rights.
It would be like me pulling a hot guy into the bathroom, so I could pat him down, and see what he has in his pockets.

Everyone thinks that security guards are like cops, but they aren't.
For fuck's sake, they are goddam rent-a-cops.
They may wear a uniform, and carry a sidearm, but they are in no damn way real police, and they can't arrest you.
They can detain you, but not arrest.

So, if they did that to you, they are secretly thinking "Whew, we are lucky she doesn't know any better."

Why?
Violating civil liberties can be a costly thing.
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